8 ms·

The military beard ban is about sealing a gas mask, it does have a real purpose. Having said that, they do let SF grow beards.

by gaius 8y ago

cimmanom 8y ago
SF?
- liotier 8y ago
  Troops in the field for long durations tend to have dress and grooming discipline more lax than what would be enforced on a base in peacetime. Special forces seem to have especially large leeway about that with their infamous "tactical beards".
  - cimmanom 8y ago
    Ah. SF = Special Forces.
Legogris 8y ago
Can confirm. Same when I did service in Sweden. Reasonable mustaches were OK, beards were not.
- kzrdude 8y ago
  What about trimming to a stubble, was that ok? Or does it have to be razor blade shaven?
  - jacobush 8y ago
    A gas mask seal will not be great with significant stubble.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  - killaken2000 8y ago
    It will seal just fine up to a 4 or 5 inches or more I can't remember anymore. I do remember it being discussed when I went for training to be the company NBC NCO. And it boiled down to appearances more than anything. Also special forces are expensive to replace and are out in areas that could have NBC related threats and have some of the biggest beards I've ever seen.
- cmsd2 8y ago
  RAF allows moustaches too. Apparently "not to extend below the edge of the mouth" which still leaves quite a lot of room for expression I would guess. Rule still applies while on secondment [1]. My Grandfather was born before the days of safety razors and tells me that Navy personnel were able to petition to avoid shaving on account of delicate skin (something about the salt water and fresh air). I think anybody who could grow a beard would have done. 1. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7451939.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7451939.stm
  - etatoby 8y ago
    Interesting observation. The area of the upper lip is known as the "Danger triangle" of the face, in which due to way blood circulates in that area, including the upper lip, infections can spread back towards the brain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danger_triangle_of_the_face https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danger_triangle_of_the_face I never thought that mustaches had a health / self preservation / natural selection origin, but it could very well have been the case. Shaving every day without modern tools and products could easily cause infections, which in that area could prove fatal.
ip26 8y ago
Also pilot oxygen masks, although that's only a very small portion of the service.
- neuronflux 8y ago
  Interestingly, a recent study indicates that seems to be more form than function. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/beards-now-permitted-for-air-canada-pilots-1.4825104 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/beards-now-p...
NeedMoreTea 8y ago
The Navy has always permitted beards, and still do. Has to be a full beard though, not just moustache. Special forces too on ops. Some Scots regiments like Scots Guards still allow beards for Sergeants and possibly other ranks. They might even still encourage it.
- yellowapple 8y ago
  I didn't know the Navy does, or that it forbids moustaches on their own. Is that a recent change? Or maybe depends on rank or post? It conflicts with stories I've heard re: my uncle (who was a submarine commander in the 90's) being barred from beards but not from moustaches, and thus growing his out to ridiculous lengths at the annoyance of my aunt.
  - NeedMoreTea 8y ago
    A quick web search and Queens Regulations don't seem to go well together. :) Turns out to be more complex than I thought. "The CO may permit all personnel (except Royal Marines) to request to wear full set beards. RM personnel may wear moustaches at their discretion." The moustache only ban seems to be Queen Victoria's doing. It's up to the CO if the resulting beard is good enough. Uneven growth, e.g. scrappy, is unacceptable. The advised maximum time to achieve a sufficiently thorough beard is 2 weeks. lol More here: https://www.forces.net/news/beard-royal-navy-tradition https://www.forces.net/news/beard-royal-navy-tradition As far as I know it goes back to the days of Drake. No idea if there's variations for submariners or COs. I know there are some variations of regs and traditions for the silent service.
    - yellowapple 8y ago
      I think we might be talking about two different navies. I thought the discussion was around the US Navy; looks like you're referring to the Royal Navy?
      - NeedMoreTea 8y ago
        Indeed I was, and foolishly didn't put Royal Navy in the OP, though I thought I had. Sorry for the confusion :)

The military beard ban is about sealing a gas mask, it does have a real purpose. Having said that, they do let SF grow beards.

by gaius 8y ago

The military beard ban is about sealing a gas mask, it does have a real purpose. Having said that, they do let SF grow beards.

cimmanom 8y ago

SF?

liotier 8y ago
Troops in the field for long durations tend to have dress and grooming discipline more lax than what would be enforced on a base in peacetime. Special forces seem to have especially large leeway about that with their infamous "tactical beards".
- cimmanom 8y ago
  Ah. SF = Special Forces.

Legogris 8y ago

Can confirm. Same when I did service in Sweden. Reasonable mustaches were OK, beards were not.

kzrdude 8y ago
What about trimming to a stubble, was that ok? Or does it have to be razor blade shaven?
- jacobush 8y ago
  A gas mask seal will not be great with significant stubble.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- killaken2000 8y ago
  It will seal just fine up to a 4 or 5 inches or more I can't remember anymore. I do remember it being discussed when I went for training to be the company NBC NCO. And it boiled down to appearances more than anything. Also special forces are expensive to replace and are out in areas that could have NBC related threats and have some of the biggest beards I've ever seen.
cmsd2 8y ago
RAF allows moustaches too. Apparently "not to extend below the edge of the mouth" which still leaves quite a lot of room for expression I would guess. Rule still applies while on secondment [1]. My Grandfather was born before the days of safety razors and tells me that Navy personnel were able to petition to avoid shaving on account of delicate skin (something about the salt water and fresh air). I think anybody who could grow a beard would have done. 1. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7451939.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7451939.stm
- etatoby 8y ago
  Interesting observation. The area of the upper lip is known as the "Danger triangle" of the face, in which due to way blood circulates in that area, including the upper lip, infections can spread back towards the brain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danger_triangle_of_the_face https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danger_triangle_of_the_face I never thought that mustaches had a health / self preservation / natural selection origin, but it could very well have been the case. Shaving every day without modern tools and products could easily cause infections, which in that area could prove fatal.

ip26 8y ago

Also pilot oxygen masks, although that's only a very small portion of the service.

neuronflux 8y ago
Interestingly, a recent study indicates that seems to be more form than function. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/beards-now-permitted-for-air-canada-pilots-1.4825104 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/beards-now-p...

NeedMoreTea 8y ago

The Navy has always permitted beards, and still do. Has to be a full beard though, not just moustache. Special forces too on ops. Some Scots regiments like Scots Guards still allow beards for Sergeants and possibly other ranks. They might even still encourage it.

yellowapple 8y ago
I didn't know the Navy does, or that it forbids moustaches on their own. Is that a recent change? Or maybe depends on rank or post? It conflicts with stories I've heard re: my uncle (who was a submarine commander in the 90's) being barred from beards but not from moustaches, and thus growing his out to ridiculous lengths at the annoyance of my aunt.
- NeedMoreTea 8y ago
  A quick web search and Queens Regulations don't seem to go well together. :) Turns out to be more complex than I thought. "The CO may permit all personnel (except Royal Marines) to request to wear full set beards. RM personnel may wear moustaches at their discretion." The moustache only ban seems to be Queen Victoria's doing. It's up to the CO if the resulting beard is good enough. Uneven growth, e.g. scrappy, is unacceptable. The advised maximum time to achieve a sufficiently thorough beard is 2 weeks. lol More here: https://www.forces.net/news/beard-royal-navy-tradition https://www.forces.net/news/beard-royal-navy-tradition As far as I know it goes back to the days of Drake. No idea if there's variations for submariners or COs. I know there are some variations of regs and traditions for the silent service.
  - yellowapple 8y ago
    I think we might be talking about two different navies. I thought the discussion was around the US Navy; looks like you're referring to the Royal Navy?
    - NeedMoreTea 8y ago
      Indeed I was, and foolishly didn't put Royal Navy in the OP, though I thought I had. Sorry for the confusion :)