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I think the point of dead posts is that there is no punishment that works. These are posters that thrive on and are reinforced by conflicting interaction regard

I think the point of dead posts is that there is no punishment that works. These are posters that thrive on and are reinforced by conflicting interaction regardless of voting. When the posts are "dead" (and thus get no interaction) we have extinction of the reinforcement.

crististm 8y ago
Unfortunately conflicts are absolutely necessary for solving deep problems and if conflict is banned outright then what remains is shallow or polite conversation. (Conflict does not mean malevolence)
- Loughla 8y ago
  >(Conflict does not mean malevolence) Not all conflict does, but in this case, the OP was talking about people who are baiting argument for the sake of argument. They're not looking to solve some problem. They're just looking to be dicks. There is a difference.
  - crististm 8y ago
    Yes. But how do you enlarge the frame to include the conflict _and_ be able to tell the useful one from the malevolent one? My argument is that it is not clear in what way the dead posts became dead and neither self-correction nor peer-correction are possible any more.
    - aaronchall 8y ago
      I don't know myself exactly all the circumstances that may lead to a dead post, but I don't really need to know - all I know is that the posts are rather off-the-rails and outliers, or just plain bizarre. As for correcting the user's behavior - I think we make the calculation that interactive correction is impossible or infeasible at this time and in this forum. This is a self-interested calculation, but I think I must agree that it's a healthy self-interest. Eventually, if they will be more careful not to alienate other users and make more useful and helpful comments, others who have showdead=Yes (like myself) could vouch for them. I may have done so once or twice (I don't recall actually doing so), so that circumstance would seem to be rare...
    - Loughla 8y ago
      I honestly don't know how to do it. But I will say that on HN at least, there seems to be a moderation team interested in finding that balance. The only comments I've seen that get killed are so far off the rails or so hateful as to be completely unproductive. From what I've seen online, the malevolent ones just seem to want to resort to personal attacks, or make terrible arguments full of basic logic flaws. I get what you're saying, but I would say that the onus is on the individual arguing to prove they are not malicious. If I type something that can be construed as 'off-topic' or malicious, I always either preface it with an explanation to the word choice (i.e. don't read tone in text, because this is said with a flat emote). Otherwise, I expect my comment to get flagged and killed. Like this one. This has nothing to do with the original story, so it may get killed. And that's something that I understand and am okay with.
wnoise 8y ago
Yeah, the dead comments are generally a good thing. The problem is that there are a large number of dead comments that appear to be false positives.
PhasmaFelis 8y ago
That is true, but in my experience HN mods have a really hard time recognizing the difference between malicious trolls/spammers who need to be kept in the dark vs. well-meaning commenters who could improve with a little correction. More often, anyone who comes to the attention of the mods is assumed to be a troll and gets silently throttled or hellbanned.

crististm 8y ago

Unfortunately conflicts are absolutely necessary for solving deep problems and if conflict is banned outright then what remains is shallow or polite conversation. (Conflict does not mean malevolence)

Loughla 8y ago
>(Conflict does not mean malevolence) Not all conflict does, but in this case, the OP was talking about people who are baiting argument for the sake of argument. They're not looking to solve some problem. They're just looking to be dicks. There is a difference.
- crististm 8y ago
  Yes. But how do you enlarge the frame to include the conflict _and_ be able to tell the useful one from the malevolent one? My argument is that it is not clear in what way the dead posts became dead and neither self-correction nor peer-correction are possible any more.
  - aaronchall 8y ago
    I don't know myself exactly all the circumstances that may lead to a dead post, but I don't really need to know - all I know is that the posts are rather off-the-rails and outliers, or just plain bizarre. As for correcting the user's behavior - I think we make the calculation that interactive correction is impossible or infeasible at this time and in this forum. This is a self-interested calculation, but I think I must agree that it's a healthy self-interest. Eventually, if they will be more careful not to alienate other users and make more useful and helpful comments, others who have showdead=Yes (like myself) could vouch for them. I may have done so once or twice (I don't recall actually doing so), so that circumstance would seem to be rare...
  - Loughla 8y ago
    I honestly don't know how to do it. But I will say that on HN at least, there seems to be a moderation team interested in finding that balance. The only comments I've seen that get killed are so far off the rails or so hateful as to be completely unproductive. From what I've seen online, the malevolent ones just seem to want to resort to personal attacks, or make terrible arguments full of basic logic flaws. I get what you're saying, but I would say that the onus is on the individual arguing to prove they are not malicious. If I type something that can be construed as 'off-topic' or malicious, I always either preface it with an explanation to the word choice (i.e. don't read tone in text, because this is said with a flat emote). Otherwise, I expect my comment to get flagged and killed. Like this one. This has nothing to do with the original story, so it may get killed. And that's something that I understand and am okay with.

wnoise 8y ago

Yeah, the dead comments are generally a good thing. The problem is that there are a large number of dead comments that appear to be false positives.

PhasmaFelis 8y ago

That is true, but in my experience HN mods have a really hard time recognizing the difference between malicious trolls/spammers who need to be kept in the dark vs. well-meaning commenters who could improve with a little correction. More often, anyone who comes to the attention of the mods is assumed to be a troll and gets silently throttled or hellbanned.