7 ms·

If you would like to remain in United States and do not mind having proper seasons, I would strongly consider Chicago, the last affordable big city in the Unite

If you would like to remain in United States and do not mind having proper seasons, I would strongly consider Chicago, the last affordable big city in the United States. University of Chicago pulls a robust intellectual community (81 Nobel Laureates), but there is also a deep intellectual history around the arts and music that transcends the work of the university - something that I'm not sure I can say for a place like Cambridge. The Art Institute has many of the paintings you might have seen in middle school history books, which is telling in of itself - and while everyone remembers Chicago's jazz, few know that it also invented house music (and a variety of other genres). It's home to many a political movement. It has unparalleled and extremely diverse architecture. The tech scene is doing great - and if any place will upset racial diversity in tech, it will certainly be this city. People feel like they have a general sense of good will towards their neighbors, without losing the quick pace only a big city will offer you. Most importantly and to your point - there is a respect for intellectual exchange no matter the discipline - Tech? Economics? Art? Policy? Medicine? Michelin-starred cuisine? I can't think of a field that you can't pursue with confidence in Chicago. A completely trivial aside - one of the biggest complaints I hear from expats of the Bay Area is a lack of great Mexican food in Boston/Europe/etc. Thanks to a neighborhood called "Little Mexico" (which really does feel like being transported to the Mission), Chicago may be the furthest east you can go while still being able to find authentic Mexican food.

telesilla 8y ago
Chicago is a really wonderful city and I can vouch for everything tropdrop says here. I will also add, it's good for cycling (though do take care when not on dedicated lanes) and though the winter will leave you breathless and the summers will leave you panting, the vibrancy of city and everything it has to offer, and the affordability it still has, make up for it. It's one of my favourite cities in the world.
assblaster 8y ago
Chicago is a terrible option: Major parts of the city are off limits to white people due to threats from gangs on racial basis, but also random violence from crowds of "youths" who troll around nicer areas of the city looking for victims. Insane traffic, but if you want public transportation, you can look forward to dirty buses and subways, and again, threats of violence directed at you. Miserable long winters. High cost of living. Horrible politics, rampant corruption and mismanagement. You'd be better served in a suburb of Chicago, but you'll still be affected by statewide corruption and mismanagement and high taxes.
- nomadiccoder 8y ago
  This is just wrong, except for the politics part.
- dtornabene 8y ago
  So, in case this doesn't get completely flagged, which it should, its also dead wrong. I lived in Chicago for years, family from Chicago, so I've been coming there literally since I was born. The cost of living is low, and the idea that "major parts of the city are off limits to white people" is exactly as absurd and racist as it sounds. I worked on the south side, and am painfully white. I biked and walked around the south side and have gone to meetings on the south side and west side. People pushing this are either racist or simply trolling. Its a wonderful, cosmopolitan city, with dozens (and dozens) of languages spoken, quiet friendly neighborhoods to live in. The only neigborhood I've ever personally had trouble in was Wrigleyville, and I'm going to shock people here, but it isn't people of color making it difficult. I lived in Jeff Park, up and down Milwaukee, Wrigleyville, and Evanston (Not Chi, but close). Its a great city to live and work in and I miss it dearly.
  - assblaster 8y ago
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-chicago-downtown-teens-20180529-story.html http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-chi... Police try to keep peace downtown, along lake by 'directing' large groups of troublesome teens to express trains http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2012-06-13-chi-police-release-surveillance-photos-of-teens-in-red-line-robbery-mob-attack-20120612-story.html http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2012-06-13-chi-pol... Chicago police have released surveillance photos of a group of teenagers who they say attacked a man after stealing his wife’s iPhone on the Red Line subway downtown over the weekend. The couple were on a train near State and Lake streets about 10:20 p.m. Saturday when the woman dropped her iPhone and one of the teens picked it up, police said. http://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/ct-xpm-2011-06-06-ct-edit-mob-20110606-story.html http://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/ct-xpm-2011-06-06-ct-e... The flash mob phenomenon has taken an alarmingly dark turn on Chicago's Near North Side. Teenage posses, some apparently assembled via social media networks, are visiting chaos on retail and tourist hot spots in and around the Gold Coast, Streeterville and Michigan Avenue's Magnificent Mile.
lotsofpulp 8y ago
I would take CT/IL/NJ off of any list just due to the situation of the state finances. Taxes are going to rise a lot in the next 10 years, and government services are going to be reduced to make their debt payments.
SwellJoe 8y ago
"Chicago, the last affordable big city in the United States" I love Chicago, and would consider living there were it not for the harsh winters. But, Dallas and Houston would like a word about being the last affordable big city in the US. I'd wager they're more affordable than Chicago, actually. Then again, if your definition of "big city" includes mass transit worth speaking of and corridors where you can live affordably near that mass transit, I guess you'd be right. Texas is stupidly backward on transit. Big roads, big trucks, big houses in big suburbs are the rule in Texas (this is changing in the major cities, though slowly). But, they've both got all the big city stuff most people think of: Museums, food, music, culture, etc. Houston, in particular, will surprise you, as it has excellent art museums (including the Menil collection, which is probably my personal favorite museum of any I've visited, and I've traveled a lot), and one of the best opera companies in the world, among other things. Also amazingly good food due to large immigrant populations and a lot of produce that doesn't have to be shipped very far since it's grown in nearby areas. And, a very low cost of living, relatively speaking.
- wglb 8y ago
  Despite what 'tptacek and others might say about winters, I don't find them bad at all. There have, in fact, been one or two that are outright frauds, with 72 degrees on Christmas Day. And the lowest temperature is only -29F. (Full disclosure--I grew up in Montana on the prairie, with more wind than Chicago, so my perspective might be unusual.)
  - SwellJoe 8y ago
    I grew up in the south. -29F sounds like hell on earth. I get seasonal depression, there's no way I'd put myself through a winter like that to save a little money on rent. Though, again, there are major southern cities with lower cost of living than Chicago, so it's like not even saving money, despite the possibility of living without a car. Since I work from home, my car/commute costs are negligible, and I drive a 10+ year old vehicle that's fully paid for. I'm not saying Chicago isn't a great city for some folks. It is, but it's not the city for me, though I love to visit and when a conference is happening there I'm more likely to want to go.
Shorel 8y ago
What would be authentic Mexican food?
- nervousvarun 8y ago
  Not OP but for me...something that's not TexMex. Obligatory fajitas is not Mexican. It's American-Mexican (TexMex). One TLDR/cusory menu check for authentic Mexican: are there mole sauce based dishes on the menu?
- tptacek 8y ago
  Chicago has an enormous Latinx population and very good Mexican food. Tripe tacos. Ridiculous mole. Goat stew. Tortas and cemitas.
- dtornabene 8y ago
  as tptacek noted in a sibling, there is seriously good Mexican food here, and Latin American food as well. All over.
baby 8y ago
I've lived there for a while and there were a lot of deal breakers for me: * security: you feel unsafe in most of the city, past a certain hour and you can't walk nor take the public transit (actually even during the day, the public transit is filled with crazy people). I could never take walks around my place when I was living there. A lot of poverty. * no real life: there is the loop, but it's mostly offices and it dies down at night. Then there are a few single streets (wicker park, logan square, etc.) but they are rather small places where you can't really walk for a long time. * the winter: it's freaking cold
- tptacek 8y ago
  It's a big city. There is big city crime. Your nightlife thing is pretty weird. The Loop is Chicago's business district. It is dead after business hours. Don't be there. Wicker Park and Logan Square are neighborhoods, not single streets. There's also Lakeview, Avondale, Pilsen, Andersonville, and a bunch of others I'm forgetting. Maybe the argument is that together these neighborhoods constitute a pretty decent night-life, but it's hard to walk from Wicker Park to Andersonville if you want to start an evening eating tacos at the Big Star walkup and end it with beers at Hopleaf? That's fair, but that's what NYC is like too. It does get cold here!
  - baby 8y ago
    > It's a big city. There is big city crime. Compare that to London or Beijing where you feel safe at all time. Being a big city is not an excuse for feeling unsafe. > Wicker Park and Logan Square are neighborhoods, not single streets After one or two streets there is not much to see. Again I'm comparing this to european cities/asian cities where you can walk for hours in lively old centers/districts.
    - tptacek 8y ago
      I'm not going to compare it to London or Beijing, but while I wouldn't move to Chicago from San Francisco to get away from crime, for most people, a move from SF to Chicago wouldn't be a move into significantly more crime either.
tptacek 8y ago
Chicago pro's: * Cheap housing with lots of options, even if you stay in the city limits (Chicago is huge). * Cheap office space. * Vibrant, 1st tier business community; Chicago's not the best place to try to get a tech job, but it is one of the better places to start a tech company, especially if you're bootstrapping. * Really fantastic food and drink scene. * Top tier venues for touring music scene; we get better shows than SFBA does. * Functioning, wide-reaching public transit system. Chicago con's: * State finances are truly fucked. * The crime situation is not a joke, though it's more a moral catastrophe than a middle+ class safety issue. * I like cold weather but you probably don't and Chicago cold is not fucking around cold. * The startup scene is has a serious cargo cult vibe and can be cliquish. * Apart from the lake, outdoors stuff is adequate and unspectacular at best. * It won't be nearly as easy to raise money here as in any tech hub. I think if you buy into the premise (big city, cold weather 1/4 of the year), Chicago is easily the best value in the US. But lots of people reasonably don't buy into that, and if you don't, you probably won't love the city the way its boosters do.

telesilla 8y ago

Chicago is a really wonderful city and I can vouch for everything tropdrop says here. I will also add, it's good for cycling (though do take care when not on dedicated lanes) and though the winter will leave you breathless and the summers will leave you panting, the vibrancy of city and everything it has to offer, and the affordability it still has, make up for it. It's one of my favourite cities in the world.

assblaster 8y ago

Chicago is a terrible option: Major parts of the city are off limits to white people due to threats from gangs on racial basis, but also random violence from crowds of "youths" who troll around nicer areas of the city looking for victims. Insane traffic, but if you want public transportation, you can look forward to dirty buses and subways, and again, threats of violence directed at you. Miserable long winters. High cost of living. Horrible politics, rampant corruption and mismanagement. You'd be better served in a suburb of Chicago, but you'll still be affected by statewide corruption and mismanagement and high taxes.

nomadiccoder 8y ago
This is just wrong, except for the politics part.
dtornabene 8y ago
So, in case this doesn't get completely flagged, which it should, its also dead wrong. I lived in Chicago for years, family from Chicago, so I've been coming there literally since I was born. The cost of living is low, and the idea that "major parts of the city are off limits to white people" is exactly as absurd and racist as it sounds. I worked on the south side, and am painfully white. I biked and walked around the south side and have gone to meetings on the south side and west side. People pushing this are either racist or simply trolling. Its a wonderful, cosmopolitan city, with dozens (and dozens) of languages spoken, quiet friendly neighborhoods to live in. The only neigborhood I've ever personally had trouble in was Wrigleyville, and I'm going to shock people here, but it isn't people of color making it difficult. I lived in Jeff Park, up and down Milwaukee, Wrigleyville, and Evanston (Not Chi, but close). Its a great city to live and work in and I miss it dearly.
- assblaster 8y ago
  http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-chicago-downtown-teens-20180529-story.html http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-chi... Police try to keep peace downtown, along lake by 'directing' large groups of troublesome teens to express trains http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2012-06-13-chi-police-release-surveillance-photos-of-teens-in-red-line-robbery-mob-attack-20120612-story.html http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2012-06-13-chi-pol... Chicago police have released surveillance photos of a group of teenagers who they say attacked a man after stealing his wife’s iPhone on the Red Line subway downtown over the weekend. The couple were on a train near State and Lake streets about 10:20 p.m. Saturday when the woman dropped her iPhone and one of the teens picked it up, police said. http://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/ct-xpm-2011-06-06-ct-edit-mob-20110606-story.html http://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/ct-xpm-2011-06-06-ct-e... The flash mob phenomenon has taken an alarmingly dark turn on Chicago's Near North Side. Teenage posses, some apparently assembled via social media networks, are visiting chaos on retail and tourist hot spots in and around the Gold Coast, Streeterville and Michigan Avenue's Magnificent Mile.

lotsofpulp 8y ago

I would take CT/IL/NJ off of any list just due to the situation of the state finances. Taxes are going to rise a lot in the next 10 years, and government services are going to be reduced to make their debt payments.

SwellJoe 8y ago

"Chicago, the last affordable big city in the United States" I love Chicago, and would consider living there were it not for the harsh winters. But, Dallas and Houston would like a word about being the last affordable big city in the US. I'd wager they're more affordable than Chicago, actually. Then again, if your definition of "big city" includes mass transit worth speaking of and corridors where you can live affordably near that mass transit, I guess you'd be right. Texas is stupidly backward on transit. Big roads, big trucks, big houses in big suburbs are the rule in Texas (this is changing in the major cities, though slowly). But, they've both got all the big city stuff most people think of: Museums, food, music, culture, etc. Houston, in particular, will surprise you, as it has excellent art museums (including the Menil collection, which is probably my personal favorite museum of any I've visited, and I've traveled a lot), and one of the best opera companies in the world, among other things. Also amazingly good food due to large immigrant populations and a lot of produce that doesn't have to be shipped very far since it's grown in nearby areas. And, a very low cost of living, relatively speaking.

wglb 8y ago
Despite what 'tptacek and others might say about winters, I don't find them bad at all. There have, in fact, been one or two that are outright frauds, with 72 degrees on Christmas Day. And the lowest temperature is only -29F. (Full disclosure--I grew up in Montana on the prairie, with more wind than Chicago, so my perspective might be unusual.)
- SwellJoe 8y ago
  I grew up in the south. -29F sounds like hell on earth. I get seasonal depression, there's no way I'd put myself through a winter like that to save a little money on rent. Though, again, there are major southern cities with lower cost of living than Chicago, so it's like not even saving money, despite the possibility of living without a car. Since I work from home, my car/commute costs are negligible, and I drive a 10+ year old vehicle that's fully paid for. I'm not saying Chicago isn't a great city for some folks. It is, but it's not the city for me, though I love to visit and when a conference is happening there I'm more likely to want to go.

Shorel 8y ago

What would be authentic Mexican food?

nervousvarun 8y ago
Not OP but for me...something that's not TexMex. Obligatory fajitas is not Mexican. It's American-Mexican (TexMex). One TLDR/cusory menu check for authentic Mexican: are there mole sauce based dishes on the menu?
tptacek 8y ago
Chicago has an enormous Latinx population and very good Mexican food. Tripe tacos. Ridiculous mole. Goat stew. Tortas and cemitas.
dtornabene 8y ago
as tptacek noted in a sibling, there is seriously good Mexican food here, and Latin American food as well. All over.

baby 8y ago

I've lived there for a while and there were a lot of deal breakers for me: * security: you feel unsafe in most of the city, past a certain hour and you can't walk nor take the public transit (actually even during the day, the public transit is filled with crazy people). I could never take walks around my place when I was living there. A lot of poverty. * no real life: there is the loop, but it's mostly offices and it dies down at night. Then there are a few single streets (wicker park, logan square, etc.) but they are rather small places where you can't really walk for a long time. * the winter: it's freaking cold

tptacek 8y ago
It's a big city. There is big city crime. Your nightlife thing is pretty weird. The Loop is Chicago's business district. It is dead after business hours. Don't be there. Wicker Park and Logan Square are neighborhoods, not single streets. There's also Lakeview, Avondale, Pilsen, Andersonville, and a bunch of others I'm forgetting. Maybe the argument is that together these neighborhoods constitute a pretty decent night-life, but it's hard to walk from Wicker Park to Andersonville if you want to start an evening eating tacos at the Big Star walkup and end it with beers at Hopleaf? That's fair, but that's what NYC is like too. It does get cold here!
- baby 8y ago
  > It's a big city. There is big city crime. Compare that to London or Beijing where you feel safe at all time. Being a big city is not an excuse for feeling unsafe. > Wicker Park and Logan Square are neighborhoods, not single streets After one or two streets there is not much to see. Again I'm comparing this to european cities/asian cities where you can walk for hours in lively old centers/districts.
  - tptacek 8y ago
    I'm not going to compare it to London or Beijing, but while I wouldn't move to Chicago from San Francisco to get away from crime, for most people, a move from SF to Chicago wouldn't be a move into significantly more crime either.

tptacek 8y ago

Chicago pro's: * Cheap housing with lots of options, even if you stay in the city limits (Chicago is huge). * Cheap office space. * Vibrant, 1st tier business community; Chicago's not the best place to try to get a tech job, but it is one of the better places to start a tech company, especially if you're bootstrapping. * Really fantastic food and drink scene. * Top tier venues for touring music scene; we get better shows than SFBA does. * Functioning, wide-reaching public transit system. Chicago con's: * State finances are truly fucked. * The crime situation is not a joke, though it's more a moral catastrophe than a middle+ class safety issue. * I like cold weather but you probably don't and Chicago cold is not fucking around cold. * The startup scene is has a serious cargo cult vibe and can be cliquish. * Apart from the lake, outdoors stuff is adequate and unspectacular at best. * It won't be nearly as easy to raise money here as in any tech hub. I think if you buy into the premise (big city, cold weather 1/4 of the year), Chicago is easily the best value in the US. But lots of people reasonably don't buy into that, and if you don't, you probably won't love the city the way its boosters do.