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My wife and I are turning 30 and our parents are starting to pressure us to have kids. However, we had both decided against having kids because the thought of s

My wife and I are turning 30 and our parents are starting to pressure us to have kids. However, we had both decided against having kids because the thought of someone we love worrying about global climate change crisis is too much for us to handle emotionally. We tried explaining our concerns to our parents but they don't seem to give a shit. Other than sending our parents reports like these, any suggestions on how we can convince our parents that having kids and subjecting them to a lifetime of dealing with global warming might not be such a great idea?

simonbarker87 8y ago
Don’t bother. It’s your lives, her body and ultimately nothing to do with them. Head over to /r/childfree on reddit to perhaps get some better advice but fundamentally it really has nothing to do with your parents, or anyone else, if you have children and your reasons behind that choice.
- tomjakubowski 8y ago
  That subreddit seems to be about looking down on people who have kids more than anything.
- astura 8y ago
  /r/childfree is a an extremely toxic place, I would avoid it. I like the idea of a child free community being CF myself, but that's not a pleasant or positive place.
- ablation 8y ago
  I wouldn't visit that subreddit. My experience has been that it's an incredibly toxic, polarised echo chamber, like so many subreddits. There are better, more balanced sources for insight and argument on this subject out there, in my experience.
- fersho311 8y ago
  Went there, couldn't find any valuable insights / discussions. Feels more like a cult than a group of healthy independent thinkers.
astura 8y ago
Tell them to mind their own business. You aren't going to convince them of anything, so just tell them you've made up your mind and you aren't their personal baby making machine, end of subject.
- _louisr_ 8y ago
  Or perhaps they would consider that the duty of childbearing & childrearing is the fundamental, undeniable linchpin of any successful civilization, and that their abdication of that responsibility at once betrays their family, their society, and their own bodies? And that their reasoning for not rearing children is incredibly and venomously selfish? If you wish to betray your lineage, your society, and yourselves, go ahead. Pathetically follow fashion and sterilize your body. But know this: You do not belong to yourself. You belong to your partner, then your family, then your town, and then your nation, and then the greater civilization. You betray all of them in order of ascending disgrace when you do not procreate. You are not an individual, and no matter how much obtuse justification you spout - your chest indignantly puffed out, in blind pride - you will never become a standalone machine of individual thought and biology. But, it's stupid and immature fun to snub Mom and Dad (which are really just avatars of your shared culture), and why should anyone expect anything more from those spouting such vapid, empty nonsense?
  - morsch 8y ago
    why should anyone expect anything more from those spouting such vapid, empty nonsense
nikkwong 8y ago
What in particular makes you believe that a world that suffers the ills from climate change is a world not worth living in? I do imagine it making life more difficult, sure, but—life is already very difficult for very many people, and judging by suicide rates, most people decide they'd rather stay in the game rather than jump ship.
- astura 8y ago
  I can't speak for the GP, but I have two friends who are avoiding having children for similar/the same concerns. They believe climate change will cause mass famine which will kill off about half the population and essentially lead to the full breakdown of society, with the associated breakdown in law and order, the end of property rights, and money becoming worthless. I can't personally speak to the accuracy or these predictions, or how realistic these predictions are.
  - nikkwong 8y ago
    Well, to put it in context, Soylent Green was written in 1973 and felt like a very real concern given the political and social unrest of the time. I tend to think that this is just a sign that humans like to think in terms of superlatives. I hope I'm right, and that society is able to get it's sh*t together given the likely upcoming tumult. I don't know, I feel that especially in more civilized western countries (Canada?—not the US :).), people tend to stay more united in the face of affliction and are therefore more likely to be able to ride out the storm. I guess it will depend on how badly things really end up breaking down.
  - yesenadam 8y ago
    Apart from anything else, if enough people believe it will happen, it will happen, that's for sure. Predictions easily become self-fulfilling prophecies. Which is why hope isn't a luxury that can be casually tossed overboard like that. It is essential.
- fersho311 8y ago
  I'm still in the game, I'm not talking about giving up. I can put up a better fight and do more if I don't have to deal with children. Its better if I don't have children until I feel more optimistic that climate change can be a solved problem.
radicalbyte 8y ago
I can understand your position but I think that you're being pessimistic. Despite the headlines the report is exceptionally positive. Our fate is in our own hands; the political will seems to be there with the majority of the world economy (EU/China) and the things we need to do to hit 1.5c offer some massive benefits. Simply the air quality benefits are worth the investment costs. I was expecting the costs to be in the order of the western world reverting to the quality of life from the 1800s but that isn't the case. Climate change is looking like a problem in the order of a space-race or nuclear-arms-race only this time with enormous benefits for humankind and nature.
- ForHackernews 8y ago
  Sadly, the political will is not there: https://www.vox.com/2016/10/4/13118594/2-degrees-no-more-fossil-fuels https://www.vox.com/2016/10/4/13118594/2-degrees-no-more-fos... If governments were serious about fighting climate change, the entire world economy would need to be on a war footing bent toward this goal, similar to WWII. You're correct it doesn't mean 1800s-level subsistence, but it would mean sacrifice from everyone: hefty carbon taxes, rationing, bans on holiday flights, etc. There's no realistic possibility any of that will happen, so we are dooming the next generation to a world of famine, drought and war.
  - fersho311 8y ago
    Thanks for sharing that article, I'll share that with my parents.
- fersho311 8y ago
  I agree I'm being pessimistic, but unfortunately I can't find any grounds optimism. You solve one problem, there will be another to take its place. Solar panels sounds nice, but making them comes at an environmental cost that people generally don't talk about: https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2014/11/141111-solar-panel-manufacturing-sustainability-ranking/ https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2014/11/1411... In addition to global warming, there is also the problem of over fishing / farming, loss of biodiversity, waste disposal, all of which are getting worse every year. https://www.conserve-energy-future.com/15-current-environmental-problems.php https://www.conserve-energy-future.com/15-current-environmen... With that said, I'm still trying to do my part to live responsibly: I monitor my electrical and water usage and keep them low, stopped eating meat, and donate most of my earnings to charitable causes to help as much as I can.
_louisr_ 8y ago
So you've both decided that you're personally not willing to bear the vulnerability of children? You've decided that your own suffering would be too great? You've looked into the future, and you've seen the agony of bringing a child into the world, and what you have foreseen has been too much to bear? Everyone is vulnerable; suffering and the pathetic, frail nature of existence is just that: The nature of existence. Whether it is being slaughtered by Mongols or suffocating from CO2, you are not god. Stop trying to make grand judgements about how much suffering is too much. It's pathetic, it's grandstanding, and it's avoiding the ultimate responsibility to replace the life on earth that you are currently consuming so selfishly.
- dang 8y ago
  We've banned this account for making personal attacks and ignoring our request to stop. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
chr1 8y ago
Sure climate change is likely to make the climate worse than it is now, but climate on earth is already terrible in most places, and humanity needs to learn how to control it anyway. If you are rich enough to give a good education to your children, the only thing you achieve by not having children is reducing the number of people who care about climate change and can do something about it. Maybe your child will be the one who finds a way to terraform sahara, or build sea-steading cities, or create some other amazing thing. As someone who have watched too much Cousteau documentaries as a child, was convinced that humanity is a pure evil as an adult, and is too old to marry and have children anymore, i would argue that not having children is a mistake.
- ForHackernews 8y ago
  There's no reason to assume that just because a parent is worried about climate change, that their kids will automatically be conscientious. Also, in the future the children of many people who ignored climate change will be forced to care about it. This comment is full of rationalization. I hear this all the time: Maybe my little darling will be the genius who cures cancer and solves climate change. Yeah, and maybe you'll win the lottery. But no, your kid will not fix climate change.
  - wild_preference 8y ago
    Keep in mind that they were replying to "my little darling is going to have a life so fucked by climate change that it couldn't be worth living." The post you replied to took the other extreme.
- fersho311 8y ago
  Thank you for sharing. Rather than having our own children, I think I would prefer to invest my emotional and financial bandwidth to open up an education system that provides good education for general public. I have been actively experimenting with education and observing how people communicate and learn during my free time and plan to dedicate myself fully to providing good education full time in a few years. If my wife and I decide too late that we want to have children, I think we will be happy with adopting and providing someone with shelter and love they otherwise wouldn't have had.
provolone 8y ago
Humanity has endured all manners of hardships. Is your life optimal? Think of what your ancestors went through to bring us to this point. Should you throw all of that away because of your fears?
AnimalMuppet 8y ago
Your parents knew people who faced World War II. They themselves worried about global nuclear war. They're not going to be that freaked out about a little temperature rise - unless they really buy the number of deaths that it will cause.

simonbarker87 8y ago

Don’t bother. It’s your lives, her body and ultimately nothing to do with them. Head over to /r/childfree on reddit to perhaps get some better advice but fundamentally it really has nothing to do with your parents, or anyone else, if you have children and your reasons behind that choice.

tomjakubowski 8y ago
That subreddit seems to be about looking down on people who have kids more than anything.
astura 8y ago
/r/childfree is a an extremely toxic place, I would avoid it. I like the idea of a child free community being CF myself, but that's not a pleasant or positive place.
ablation 8y ago
I wouldn't visit that subreddit. My experience has been that it's an incredibly toxic, polarised echo chamber, like so many subreddits. There are better, more balanced sources for insight and argument on this subject out there, in my experience.
fersho311 8y ago
Went there, couldn't find any valuable insights / discussions. Feels more like a cult than a group of healthy independent thinkers.

astura 8y ago

Tell them to mind their own business. You aren't going to convince them of anything, so just tell them you've made up your mind and you aren't their personal baby making machine, end of subject.

_louisr_ 8y ago
Or perhaps they would consider that the duty of childbearing & childrearing is the fundamental, undeniable linchpin of any successful civilization, and that their abdication of that responsibility at once betrays their family, their society, and their own bodies? And that their reasoning for not rearing children is incredibly and venomously selfish? If you wish to betray your lineage, your society, and yourselves, go ahead. Pathetically follow fashion and sterilize your body. But know this: You do not belong to yourself. You belong to your partner, then your family, then your town, and then your nation, and then the greater civilization. You betray all of them in order of ascending disgrace when you do not procreate. You are not an individual, and no matter how much obtuse justification you spout - your chest indignantly puffed out, in blind pride - you will never become a standalone machine of individual thought and biology. But, it's stupid and immature fun to snub Mom and Dad (which are really just avatars of your shared culture), and why should anyone expect anything more from those spouting such vapid, empty nonsense?
- morsch 8y ago
  why should anyone expect anything more from those spouting such vapid, empty nonsense

nikkwong 8y ago

What in particular makes you believe that a world that suffers the ills from climate change is a world not worth living in? I do imagine it making life more difficult, sure, but—life is already very difficult for very many people, and judging by suicide rates, most people decide they'd rather stay in the game rather than jump ship.

astura 8y ago
I can't speak for the GP, but I have two friends who are avoiding having children for similar/the same concerns. They believe climate change will cause mass famine which will kill off about half the population and essentially lead to the full breakdown of society, with the associated breakdown in law and order, the end of property rights, and money becoming worthless. I can't personally speak to the accuracy or these predictions, or how realistic these predictions are.
- nikkwong 8y ago
  Well, to put it in context, Soylent Green was written in 1973 and felt like a very real concern given the political and social unrest of the time. I tend to think that this is just a sign that humans like to think in terms of superlatives. I hope I'm right, and that society is able to get it's sh*t together given the likely upcoming tumult. I don't know, I feel that especially in more civilized western countries (Canada?—not the US :).), people tend to stay more united in the face of affliction and are therefore more likely to be able to ride out the storm. I guess it will depend on how badly things really end up breaking down.
- yesenadam 8y ago
  Apart from anything else, if enough people believe it will happen, it will happen, that's for sure. Predictions easily become self-fulfilling prophecies. Which is why hope isn't a luxury that can be casually tossed overboard like that. It is essential.
fersho311 8y ago
I'm still in the game, I'm not talking about giving up. I can put up a better fight and do more if I don't have to deal with children. Its better if I don't have children until I feel more optimistic that climate change can be a solved problem.

radicalbyte 8y ago

I can understand your position but I think that you're being pessimistic. Despite the headlines the report is exceptionally positive. Our fate is in our own hands; the political will seems to be there with the majority of the world economy (EU/China) and the things we need to do to hit 1.5c offer some massive benefits. Simply the air quality benefits are worth the investment costs. I was expecting the costs to be in the order of the western world reverting to the quality of life from the 1800s but that isn't the case. Climate change is looking like a problem in the order of a space-race or nuclear-arms-race only this time with enormous benefits for humankind and nature.

ForHackernews 8y ago
Sadly, the political will is not there: https://www.vox.com/2016/10/4/13118594/2-degrees-no-more-fossil-fuels https://www.vox.com/2016/10/4/13118594/2-degrees-no-more-fos... If governments were serious about fighting climate change, the entire world economy would need to be on a war footing bent toward this goal, similar to WWII. You're correct it doesn't mean 1800s-level subsistence, but it would mean sacrifice from everyone: hefty carbon taxes, rationing, bans on holiday flights, etc. There's no realistic possibility any of that will happen, so we are dooming the next generation to a world of famine, drought and war.
- fersho311 8y ago
  Thanks for sharing that article, I'll share that with my parents.
fersho311 8y ago
I agree I'm being pessimistic, but unfortunately I can't find any grounds optimism. You solve one problem, there will be another to take its place. Solar panels sounds nice, but making them comes at an environmental cost that people generally don't talk about: https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2014/11/141111-solar-panel-manufacturing-sustainability-ranking/ https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2014/11/1411... In addition to global warming, there is also the problem of over fishing / farming, loss of biodiversity, waste disposal, all of which are getting worse every year. https://www.conserve-energy-future.com/15-current-environmental-problems.php https://www.conserve-energy-future.com/15-current-environmen... With that said, I'm still trying to do my part to live responsibly: I monitor my electrical and water usage and keep them low, stopped eating meat, and donate most of my earnings to charitable causes to help as much as I can.

_louisr_ 8y ago

So you've both decided that you're personally not willing to bear the vulnerability of children? You've decided that your own suffering would be too great? You've looked into the future, and you've seen the agony of bringing a child into the world, and what you have foreseen has been too much to bear? Everyone is vulnerable; suffering and the pathetic, frail nature of existence is just that: The nature of existence. Whether it is being slaughtered by Mongols or suffocating from CO2, you are not god. Stop trying to make grand judgements about how much suffering is too much. It's pathetic, it's grandstanding, and it's avoiding the ultimate responsibility to replace the life on earth that you are currently consuming so selfishly.

dang 8y ago
We've banned this account for making personal attacks and ignoring our request to stop. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

chr1 8y ago

Sure climate change is likely to make the climate worse than it is now, but climate on earth is already terrible in most places, and humanity needs to learn how to control it anyway. If you are rich enough to give a good education to your children, the only thing you achieve by not having children is reducing the number of people who care about climate change and can do something about it. Maybe your child will be the one who finds a way to terraform sahara, or build sea-steading cities, or create some other amazing thing. As someone who have watched too much Cousteau documentaries as a child, was convinced that humanity is a pure evil as an adult, and is too old to marry and have children anymore, i would argue that not having children is a mistake.

ForHackernews 8y ago
There's no reason to assume that just because a parent is worried about climate change, that their kids will automatically be conscientious. Also, in the future the children of many people who ignored climate change will be forced to care about it. This comment is full of rationalization. I hear this all the time: Maybe my little darling will be the genius who cures cancer and solves climate change. Yeah, and maybe you'll win the lottery. But no, your kid will not fix climate change.
- wild_preference 8y ago
  Keep in mind that they were replying to "my little darling is going to have a life so fucked by climate change that it couldn't be worth living." The post you replied to took the other extreme.
fersho311 8y ago
Thank you for sharing. Rather than having our own children, I think I would prefer to invest my emotional and financial bandwidth to open up an education system that provides good education for general public. I have been actively experimenting with education and observing how people communicate and learn during my free time and plan to dedicate myself fully to providing good education full time in a few years. If my wife and I decide too late that we want to have children, I think we will be happy with adopting and providing someone with shelter and love they otherwise wouldn't have had.

provolone 8y ago

Humanity has endured all manners of hardships. Is your life optimal? Think of what your ancestors went through to bring us to this point. Should you throw all of that away because of your fears?

AnimalMuppet 8y ago

Your parents knew people who faced World War II. They themselves worried about global nuclear war. They're not going to be that freaked out about a little temperature rise - unless they really buy the number of deaths that it will cause.