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Exactly my feeling. Also, when I hire people coming from the startup industry I have to explain why we don't use kubernetes (we manage 2 servers for our produc

Exactly my feeling. Also, when I hire people coming from the startup industry I have to explain why we don't use kubernetes (we manage 2 servers for our production) or redux (good old publish-and-subscribe works great for us). Some of them just don't get it. Others feel relieved.

akie 8y ago
Ok, fair point - but redux is great even if your app is small.
- invaliduser 8y ago
  Exactly that. Our app is >60kloc of typescript/react, we target android,ios,macos,win32 sharing >85% of the same source code with react native and react web, many abstractions, a lot of local storage and sync with remote server, and so on. Not a small app. Still, we don't use redux, just good ol' publish and subcribe with appropriate separation of concern. My point is there are many ways to manage an app state, redux is one of them, and people can't get to understand how there are many other possible software architectures that provide maintability and scalabity of the source code, and yet does not involve what is seen as the all-incompassing pattern/tool called flux/redux.
RealDinosaur 8y ago
I agree, it does sometimes feel that everyone is taking crazy pills. Why did everyone start caring about mutability all of a sudden? I really like MobX ATM. It's a lot easier to explain to new people as well. Redux is like... too much...
- legulere 8y ago
  People started caring about mutability out of two reasons I would say: - It’s a source of thread-safety bugs. With multiple cores even in phones and async programming rising this has become a bigger issue. - It’s a source of general program logic bugs. I wouldn’t say that it has come all of a sudden. Like other modern techniques it has been standard in functional programming for years. In mainstream programming languages it’s also not totally new, for instance immutable strings were a design decision in java.
  - invaliduser 8y ago
    You are so right for the thread-safety, immutability is a major improvements. However, I am pretty sure OP was referring to immutability in javascript, which is single-thread by design, and yet many javascript developers use immutability like a no-brainer and is seen as best-practice to the point where people don't even remember what it solves. Just that it must be used.

akie 8y ago

Ok, fair point - but redux is great even if your app is small.

invaliduser 8y ago
Exactly that. Our app is >60kloc of typescript/react, we target android,ios,macos,win32 sharing >85% of the same source code with react native and react web, many abstractions, a lot of local storage and sync with remote server, and so on. Not a small app. Still, we don't use redux, just good ol' publish and subcribe with appropriate separation of concern. My point is there are many ways to manage an app state, redux is one of them, and people can't get to understand how there are many other possible software architectures that provide maintability and scalabity of the source code, and yet does not involve what is seen as the all-incompassing pattern/tool called flux/redux.

RealDinosaur 8y ago

I agree, it does sometimes feel that everyone is taking crazy pills. Why did everyone start caring about mutability all of a sudden? I really like MobX ATM. It's a lot easier to explain to new people as well. Redux is like... too much...

legulere 8y ago
People started caring about mutability out of two reasons I would say: - It’s a source of thread-safety bugs. With multiple cores even in phones and async programming rising this has become a bigger issue. - It’s a source of general program logic bugs. I wouldn’t say that it has come all of a sudden. Like other modern techniques it has been standard in functional programming for years. In mainstream programming languages it’s also not totally new, for instance immutable strings were a design decision in java.
- invaliduser 8y ago
  You are so right for the thread-safety, immutability is a major improvements. However, I am pretty sure OP was referring to immutability in javascript, which is single-thread by design, and yet many javascript developers use immutability like a no-brainer and is seen as best-practice to the point where people don't even remember what it solves. Just that it must be used.