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Apologies in advance if this is somewhat off topic, but I have some pushback against the title of this post. No disrespect to Diplomacy, I think it's a great g

Apologies in advance if this is somewhat off topic, but I have some pushback against the title of this post. No disrespect to Diplomacy, I think it's a great game. However I would respectfully submit that chess might have a stronger claim to being "the board game of the alpha nerds". (Or go, arguably, in the eastern world. But despite go's supremacy in terms of complexity, it hasn't captured the world's imagination like chess has.) There's a reason why chess scenes always pop up in movies and literature featuring, e.g. criminal masterminds vs Sherlock, or the venerable doctor teaching strategy to the protégé. The reason is, chess (rightfully or not) is universally recognized as the quintessential game symbolizing human intelligence. In my opinion as a former competitive chess player, chess skill actually isn't correlated with general intelligence, in the sense that if you're smart enough to get good at chess, at some point you realize that there are more worthwhile things to be doing with your time. But that's neither here nor there. My main argument is that if we did a vote among all the world's "alpha nerds" to determine who is the alpha-est and nerdiest of us all, I suspect that current world chess champion Magnus Carlsen might place higher than any of these Diplomacy masters. I have no idea how this survey methodology would work (could anyone declare themselves an alpha nerd, or would they need to be confirmed by other nerds with official titles in nerdy activities?), but you get my point.

fjsolwmv 8y ago
"Alpha nerds" as a term is unhelpful and distracting.
- mindgam3 8y ago
  I don't disagree, but I think the fact that the article has the term in its title is why it made it to the front page of Hacker News.
- eeZah7Ux 8y ago
  To say the least. This concept of "alpha" humans has no basis in psychology, biology and anthropology. It implies that humans are evolved to live in a hierarchical and purely competitive society which is known to be false (not only for us but for many mammals). Humans are not insect nor lobsters. There are various books from prof. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Sapolsky https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Sapolsky and youtube videos with good analysis of social behavior in primates including humans.
  - YouOkOrNot 8y ago
    Leaders emerge in all social contexts. Those who become leaders are "alpha".
derialstrazus 8y ago
I don't deny chess is the game with the higher status, but I don't think that's what the term alpha was trying to get at. Alpha here is used in a social context, ie the leader of a pack. Some traits of an alpha, as opposed to a beta, include being aggressive, intimidating, capable of convincing others to join your agenda, and willing to lie for your benefit. It's hard to display alpha traits in a one on one game like chess.
- mindgam3 8y ago
  I’m with you up until you associate alpha with being intimidating and willing to lie. Alpha implies leadership 100%. It is possible to be a strong and convincing leader without these negative traits. In practice, most leaders are in fact more ruthless as you portray. But look at the #metoo movement for one data point of how the balance of power is shifting. All of that notwithstanding, it is very possible and in fact extremely common for alpha traits to be displayed in chess, both the Machiavellian style and the more “woke” for lack of a better term. In a one on one game, this is communicated in the non-game communication ie body language. In a club or team setting all of the usual social dominance tactics apply.
  - derialstrazus 8y ago
    Apologies if I implied intimidation and lying are good traits. However, I do maintain that they are alpha traits. Lying, maybe not sure much, but intimidating, definitely. Being alpha isn't necessarily a good thing. Like all labels, and especially for a label as complicated as "alpha", there are good and bad parts to it. Honestly I dislike using the term alpha, because it's so inflammatory. Its hard to talk about what alpha means without bringing up beta, and the moment you use those two words then it sounds like redpill-speak. However, there are certain kinds of people who are confrontational and very much extroverted, the kinds who don't back away when challenged. I see alpha as a way to describe these traits as they are, with no moral conclusions attached. For sure Chess players can display alpha traits, but it's hard to see how Chess players are MORE alpha than Diplomacy players. An entire game of Chess can finish without a single word exchanged, and it's rare and unprofessional for violence to show up in Chess, though it does show up time to time. In diplomacy, violence, albeit only verbal, is the norm. A nonconfrontational person will never survive in diplomacy, but they can do well in Chess.
2muchcoffeeman 8y ago
Chess shows up in popular culture because it’s more popular. Everyone has heard of Chess. You don’t have to explain Chess. If you did have to explain it, its rules and concept are very easy. Go, and a lot of modern heavy strategy games are way more complex than Chess.
- Doxin 8y ago
  While go is more complex to play than chess, the rules are vastly simpler. There are -- roughly, depending on who's counting -- three rules.
monadgonad 8y ago
Ah, but obscurity is one of the factors of nerdiness. If you're into sci-fi films, you're more nerdy than someone into action blockbusters. If you're into 50s sci-fi B-movies specifically, you're even more nerdy.

fjsolwmv 8y ago

"Alpha nerds" as a term is unhelpful and distracting.

mindgam3 8y ago
I don't disagree, but I think the fact that the article has the term in its title is why it made it to the front page of Hacker News.
eeZah7Ux 8y ago
To say the least. This concept of "alpha" humans has no basis in psychology, biology and anthropology. It implies that humans are evolved to live in a hierarchical and purely competitive society which is known to be false (not only for us but for many mammals). Humans are not insect nor lobsters. There are various books from prof. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Sapolsky https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Sapolsky and youtube videos with good analysis of social behavior in primates including humans.
- YouOkOrNot 8y ago
  Leaders emerge in all social contexts. Those who become leaders are "alpha".

derialstrazus 8y ago

I don't deny chess is the game with the higher status, but I don't think that's what the term alpha was trying to get at. Alpha here is used in a social context, ie the leader of a pack. Some traits of an alpha, as opposed to a beta, include being aggressive, intimidating, capable of convincing others to join your agenda, and willing to lie for your benefit. It's hard to display alpha traits in a one on one game like chess.

mindgam3 8y ago
I’m with you up until you associate alpha with being intimidating and willing to lie. Alpha implies leadership 100%. It is possible to be a strong and convincing leader without these negative traits. In practice, most leaders are in fact more ruthless as you portray. But look at the #metoo movement for one data point of how the balance of power is shifting. All of that notwithstanding, it is very possible and in fact extremely common for alpha traits to be displayed in chess, both the Machiavellian style and the more “woke” for lack of a better term. In a one on one game, this is communicated in the non-game communication ie body language. In a club or team setting all of the usual social dominance tactics apply.
- derialstrazus 8y ago
  Apologies if I implied intimidation and lying are good traits. However, I do maintain that they are alpha traits. Lying, maybe not sure much, but intimidating, definitely. Being alpha isn't necessarily a good thing. Like all labels, and especially for a label as complicated as "alpha", there are good and bad parts to it. Honestly I dislike using the term alpha, because it's so inflammatory. Its hard to talk about what alpha means without bringing up beta, and the moment you use those two words then it sounds like redpill-speak. However, there are certain kinds of people who are confrontational and very much extroverted, the kinds who don't back away when challenged. I see alpha as a way to describe these traits as they are, with no moral conclusions attached. For sure Chess players can display alpha traits, but it's hard to see how Chess players are MORE alpha than Diplomacy players. An entire game of Chess can finish without a single word exchanged, and it's rare and unprofessional for violence to show up in Chess, though it does show up time to time. In diplomacy, violence, albeit only verbal, is the norm. A nonconfrontational person will never survive in diplomacy, but they can do well in Chess.

2muchcoffeeman 8y ago

Chess shows up in popular culture because it’s more popular. Everyone has heard of Chess. You don’t have to explain Chess. If you did have to explain it, its rules and concept are very easy. Go, and a lot of modern heavy strategy games are way more complex than Chess.

Doxin 8y ago
While go is more complex to play than chess, the rules are vastly simpler. There are -- roughly, depending on who's counting -- three rules.

monadgonad 8y ago

Ah, but obscurity is one of the factors of nerdiness. If you're into sci-fi films, you're more nerdy than someone into action blockbusters. If you're into 50s sci-fi B-movies specifically, you're even more nerdy.