5 ms·

Written by who? As far as the USSR doesn't exist anymore, it's not like people who never lived there, like me, can form an objective opinion about it.

dogma1138 8y ago
The USSR collapsed less than 30 years ago finding people who lived during it on both sides isn’t hard neither it’s hard to find books on the subject from both sides of the iron curtain.
- severino 8y ago
  It depends a lot on where you live. I've yet to meet anyone from the former Eastern block who was an adult by the time it collapsed. About books, that's the problem, they're all biased in one way or another. Some will depict East Germany as a police state living hell, while others describe it as a paradise as long as you didn't get involved in certain things. It's difficult to figure out what was it all about.
  - jschwartzi 8y ago
    > About books, that's the problem, they're all biased in one way or another. This is no excuse for not becoming more educated on the subject if you are ignorant. Every source is full of bias. That's why reading more than one book on the same subject is a worthwhile endeavor, because even a supposedly objective history is full of some editorializing of the events. The trick is to recognize when the author is editorializing and when they are presenting the events as they happened, and to take the editorializing as the author's point of view and the events as factual unless proven otherwise. Disagreeing with someone's opinion about something does not require you to disagree with their presentation of the facts.
  - dogma1138 8y ago
    Bias isn’t an issue everything has bias in it but in your case it wouldn’t be really hard to figure it out, East Germany was objectively a police state while it might not have been as bad as worst case for everyone it was never a paradise. There is a difference between editorializing and fabricating complete nonsense and unless you are looking for facts to reenforce your own bias it’s not hard to distinguish between them.
- AnarchoYeasty 8y ago
  Loads of people today who lived under Soviet rule want to return to soviets rule. Capitalism destroyed Eastern Europe. It's horrible over there right now.
  - cpursley 8y ago
    Really? I'm living in Russia right now and can purchase an Advacodo from just about any grocery store.
    - monocasa 8y ago
      If we're going to compare apples to apples (or really avocado to avocado), the US couldn't consistently put avocados on grocery store shelves outside of California until the late 1980s either. There were trade restrictions with Mexico, and California didn't yet have the capacity for much beyond local sales.
  - monocasa 8y ago
    Not sure why you're being downvoted... http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/06/29/in-russia-nostalgia-for-soviet-union-and-positive-feelings-about-stalin/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/06/29/in-russia-no...
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - dogma1138 8y ago
      Because statistics are meaningless nearly no one surveyed actually lived under Stalin or spent time in the gulag. Russian propaganda has been working on “restoring” the image of Stalin and the USSR diligently for over two decades heck just a few days ago they’ve arrested a Russian historian who authored a book on Stalin for being unpatriotic. https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/170146 https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/170146 https://www.rferl.org/a/second-historian-of-stalin-s-crimes-arrested-on-morals-charges-in-karelia/29523402.html https://www.rferl.org/a/second-historian-of-stalin-s-crimes-...
waynecochran 8y ago
Are you serious? Go read The Gulag Archipelago.
- 8K71PS 8y ago
  Go read an actual scholarly look at the soviet prison and forced labour system, rather than essentially fiction.
ericd 8y ago
It's not like the purges or the genocide of the Kulaks or the labor camps are heavily disputed subjects that may not have happened.
- monocasa 8y ago
  Kulak isn't a ethnic group, so there can't be a "genocide of the Kulaks". The definition of Kulak were the landowners who wouldn't collectivize. And yeah, a bunch of them were executed doing shit like lighting grain on fire during a famine out of spite for the government.
  - ericd 8y ago
    Alright, what is the word for systematically killing a large group of people grouped by something other than ethnicity?
    - filomeno 8y ago
      Death penalty? At least that's what they call it in the USA.
  - Fins 8y ago
    Or, for doing absolutely nothing. It didn't even matter if they actually were "rich" or not.
stale2002 8y ago
Well, you could read the stuff that was written by the people who actually lived through it. Many people who grew up in the Soviet Union, are still alive today. There are even a couple in this very thread, and apparently they know very much how horrible it was.
- severino 8y ago
  Yes, I could read that kind of stuff, but I would also find opinions of people who also grew up in the SU and miss it. In fact, I've recently read about polls where 60% of the russians regret the end of the USSR. So, I think this is not something black or white. You had to actually live there, not just watch it through television.
  - Fins 8y ago
    There very much are people who miss the USSR. Some are paid for it. Some honestly miss it because... well, I don't want to go into analyzing national mentality here, but there's a Russian saying that goes "if they are afraid of us, it means that they respect us". And people certainly were afraid of USSR. This perceived loss of respect drives a lot of nostalgia for the USSR.

dogma1138 8y ago

The USSR collapsed less than 30 years ago finding people who lived during it on both sides isn’t hard neither it’s hard to find books on the subject from both sides of the iron curtain.

severino 8y ago
It depends a lot on where you live. I've yet to meet anyone from the former Eastern block who was an adult by the time it collapsed. About books, that's the problem, they're all biased in one way or another. Some will depict East Germany as a police state living hell, while others describe it as a paradise as long as you didn't get involved in certain things. It's difficult to figure out what was it all about.
- jschwartzi 8y ago
  > About books, that's the problem, they're all biased in one way or another. This is no excuse for not becoming more educated on the subject if you are ignorant. Every source is full of bias. That's why reading more than one book on the same subject is a worthwhile endeavor, because even a supposedly objective history is full of some editorializing of the events. The trick is to recognize when the author is editorializing and when they are presenting the events as they happened, and to take the editorializing as the author's point of view and the events as factual unless proven otherwise. Disagreeing with someone's opinion about something does not require you to disagree with their presentation of the facts.
- dogma1138 8y ago
  Bias isn’t an issue everything has bias in it but in your case it wouldn’t be really hard to figure it out, East Germany was objectively a police state while it might not have been as bad as worst case for everyone it was never a paradise. There is a difference between editorializing and fabricating complete nonsense and unless you are looking for facts to reenforce your own bias it’s not hard to distinguish between them.
AnarchoYeasty 8y ago
Loads of people today who lived under Soviet rule want to return to soviets rule. Capitalism destroyed Eastern Europe. It's horrible over there right now.
- cpursley 8y ago
  Really? I'm living in Russia right now and can purchase an Advacodo from just about any grocery store.
  - monocasa 8y ago
    If we're going to compare apples to apples (or really avocado to avocado), the US couldn't consistently put avocados on grocery store shelves outside of California until the late 1980s either. There were trade restrictions with Mexico, and California didn't yet have the capacity for much beyond local sales.
- monocasa 8y ago
  Not sure why you're being downvoted... http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/06/29/in-russia-nostalgia-for-soviet-union-and-positive-feelings-about-stalin/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/06/29/in-russia-no...
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - dogma1138 8y ago
    Because statistics are meaningless nearly no one surveyed actually lived under Stalin or spent time in the gulag. Russian propaganda has been working on “restoring” the image of Stalin and the USSR diligently for over two decades heck just a few days ago they’ve arrested a Russian historian who authored a book on Stalin for being unpatriotic. https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/170146 https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/170146 https://www.rferl.org/a/second-historian-of-stalin-s-crimes-arrested-on-morals-charges-in-karelia/29523402.html https://www.rferl.org/a/second-historian-of-stalin-s-crimes-...

waynecochran 8y ago

Are you serious? Go read The Gulag Archipelago.

8K71PS 8y ago
Go read an actual scholarly look at the soviet prison and forced labour system, rather than essentially fiction.

ericd 8y ago

It's not like the purges or the genocide of the Kulaks or the labor camps are heavily disputed subjects that may not have happened.

monocasa 8y ago
Kulak isn't a ethnic group, so there can't be a "genocide of the Kulaks". The definition of Kulak were the landowners who wouldn't collectivize. And yeah, a bunch of them were executed doing shit like lighting grain on fire during a famine out of spite for the government.
- ericd 8y ago
  Alright, what is the word for systematically killing a large group of people grouped by something other than ethnicity?
  - filomeno 8y ago
    Death penalty? At least that's what they call it in the USA.
- Fins 8y ago
  Or, for doing absolutely nothing. It didn't even matter if they actually were "rich" or not.

stale2002 8y ago

Well, you could read the stuff that was written by the people who actually lived through it. Many people who grew up in the Soviet Union, are still alive today. There are even a couple in this very thread, and apparently they know very much how horrible it was.

severino 8y ago
Yes, I could read that kind of stuff, but I would also find opinions of people who also grew up in the SU and miss it. In fact, I've recently read about polls where 60% of the russians regret the end of the USSR. So, I think this is not something black or white. You had to actually live there, not just watch it through television.
- Fins 8y ago
  There very much are people who miss the USSR. Some are paid for it. Some honestly miss it because... well, I don't want to go into analyzing national mentality here, but there's a Russian saying that goes "if they are afraid of us, it means that they respect us". And people certainly were afraid of USSR. This perceived loss of respect drives a lot of nostalgia for the USSR.