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One of my "favorite" evil business models is Hola VPN (https://hola.org https://hola.org), a free browser VPN extension. Hola VPN users unknowingly become exit

One of my "favorite" evil business models is Hola VPN (https://hola.org https://hola.org), a free browser VPN extension. Hola VPN users unknowingly become exit nodes for residential IP address proxies for sale at https://luminati.io https://luminati.io.

throwawaymath 8y ago
While this is correct and worthy of discussion, technically it doesn't really have anything to do with what the OP is asking. The way Hola/Luminati works is not a good template for understanding the VPN cottage industry more generally.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
farresito 8y ago
Thank you for mentioning it. Just removed it. Do you know of any good, non-expensive (VPN?) alternatives? I was using it to access Netflix in other languages for language learning purposes.
- majewsky 8y ago
  The only ones that I know with a good reputation are ipredator.se and Mullvad, though those aren't free.
- F_r_k 8y ago
  If it's (nearly) free, them you're the product
- celticninja 8y ago
  https://cryptostorm.is https://cryptostorm.is
- Kaveren 8y ago
  ProtonVPN has a free plan, I recommend it quite strongly. Netflix works on the server I use, though I'm not sure if it works for all servers. P2P traffic is not allowed on free servers. Support is okay, not the fastest. Downtime is rare but not unheard of, they've been targeted with big DDoS attacks. Server options expanding but not in tons of countries. Most trustworthy and reputable service because it has a CEO you can actually put a name and a face to, and the history of Protonmail.
  - computerfriend 8y ago
    This is ironic given the connection between ProtonVPN and Hola/Luminati.
    - Kaveren 8y ago
      What are you referring to? The situation I found bits and pieces about didn't seem to amount to much of anthing. ProtonVPN was able to explain what happened to what I thought was a satisfactory degree [1]. I definitely don't trust NordVPN in particular, they advertise their "military grade encryption", and I have no clue who runs it. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtonVPN/comments/8ww4h2/protonvpn_and_tesonet/e21tfqw/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtonVPN/comments/8ww4h2/protonvpn... What other VPN would you trust? Mullvad, absolutely no clue who runs it. Private Internet Access had claims about logs proven in federal court at some point in the past, but I really still don't trust it. Running your own VPN is one of the best options but you almost completely lose the relatively reasonable degree of anonymity that VPN providers serve to you. Depends on your objectives.
      - krn 8y ago
        > ProtonVPN was able to explain what happened to what I thought was a satisfactory degree ProtonVPN's explanation was extremely hardly believable[1]. > Mullvad, absolutely no clue who runs it. It's clearly stated on Mullvad's homepage[2]: > The legal entity operating Mullvad is Amagicom AB. [...] Amagicom is 100% owned by founders Fredrik Strömberg and Daniel Berntsson who are actively involved in the company. The rest of the team includes Robin Lövgren, Simon Andersson, Linus, Richard Mitra, Sanny Mitra, David Marby, Odd, Andrej Mihajlov, Janito Ferreira Filho, Elad Yarom and Jan Jonsson. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17775554 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17775554 [2] https://mullvad.net/en/ https://mullvad.net/en/
- terrycody 8y ago
  I got a free VPN plan can share with you, in a very very low cost, and you can use it for 1-2 years, at least, reply me with your email, I will contact u.
tormeh 8y ago
So, it's kinda like Tor, just that there's a free tier where you are an exit node, and a paid tier where you are not? I dunno, I don't really see what's so very wrong about this, as long as it's communicated clearly.
- jazoom 8y ago
  as long as it's communicated clearly. Exactly. It's not.
foob 8y ago
As part of a company in the residential proxy space [1], I just wanted to point out that this type of proxy is used in a very different way than low-end VPNs. Residential proxies tend to much more expensive, and this results in them being used almost exclusively for legitimate business purposes. It's even a standard practice to go through a KYC process before obtaining access to residential proxies in order to ensure that they'll be used responsibly. VPNs are often used for piracy, SPAM, and other nefarious purposes while residential proxies are primarily used to obtain access to data through web scraping. Large companies like Google are able to scrape the same sites without getting blocked already, and proxies help to level the playing field between innovative startups and established players. I can certainly understand the critique, but I strongly believe that the existence of residential proxies results in a lot more good than evil. [1] - https://intoli.com https://intoli.com
- wild_preference 8y ago
  My critique is that Hola VPN users don't realize that they are peers, nor what that entails even if you were to use more direct language than the vague "share your idle resources with the community!" rhetoric on Hola VPN's homepage. But since you brought it up, we both know residential proxies are especially attractive to bad actors and circumventors. It's like how we're both capable of pitching Tor as the emancipator of the sanctioned journalist trying to publish the truth in the face of mortal danger. Yet 99% of Tor traffic to my websites is malicious despite our feel-good hypotheticals. Of course, residential proxies are even better than Tor because a network can't just block the residential IP address space. ;)
  - exolymph 8y ago
    Upvoted for realism, but I want to respond to this: > It's like how we're both capable of pitching Tor as the emancipator of the sanctioned journalist trying to publish the truth in the face of mortal danger. Yet 99% of Tor traffic to my websites is malicious despite our feel-good hypotheticals. Of course. That's the reality of freedom on the radical edges — bad actors need it more than pro-social actors. Many of us choose to support radical freedom(s) anyway because the capacity for anyone to act* freely is judged to outweigh the negative effects from bad actors. *browse, post, etc.
amingilani 8y ago
Whoa, as a luminati customer, I always wondered how they got these residential IPs. Now I know.
morpheuskafka 8y ago
> Hola works because it is a peer-to-peer network - you use the network and contribute to the network. To provide this service without charge to our community, Hola charges validated corporations for use of the network. For Hola users that do not want to be a peer in this network, we offer the Hola Premium service, which lets you only use the network, but not be a part of it Seems quite knowing to me. That same FAQ page, which is very detailed, even provides an explanation of what permissions are used.
0xb100db1ade 8y ago
Relevant section of EULA: http://archive.is/n7wCB#selection-645.1-651.45 http://archive.is/n7wCB#selection-645.1-651.45 > In return for free usage of Hola Free VPN Proxy, Hola Fake GPS location and Hola Video Accelerator, you may be a peer on the Luminati network. By doing so you agree to have read and accepted the terms of service of the Luminati SDK SLA. You may opt out by becoming a premium user.

throwawaymath 8y ago

While this is correct and worthy of discussion, technically it doesn't really have anything to do with what the OP is asking. The way Hola/Luminati works is not a good template for understanding the VPN cottage industry more generally.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

farresito 8y ago

Thank you for mentioning it. Just removed it. Do you know of any good, non-expensive (VPN?) alternatives? I was using it to access Netflix in other languages for language learning purposes.

majewsky 8y ago
The only ones that I know with a good reputation are ipredator.se and Mullvad, though those aren't free.
F_r_k 8y ago
If it's (nearly) free, them you're the product
celticninja 8y ago
https://cryptostorm.is https://cryptostorm.is
Kaveren 8y ago
ProtonVPN has a free plan, I recommend it quite strongly. Netflix works on the server I use, though I'm not sure if it works for all servers. P2P traffic is not allowed on free servers. Support is okay, not the fastest. Downtime is rare but not unheard of, they've been targeted with big DDoS attacks. Server options expanding but not in tons of countries. Most trustworthy and reputable service because it has a CEO you can actually put a name and a face to, and the history of Protonmail.
- computerfriend 8y ago
  This is ironic given the connection between ProtonVPN and Hola/Luminati.
  - Kaveren 8y ago
    What are you referring to? The situation I found bits and pieces about didn't seem to amount to much of anthing. ProtonVPN was able to explain what happened to what I thought was a satisfactory degree [1]. I definitely don't trust NordVPN in particular, they advertise their "military grade encryption", and I have no clue who runs it. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtonVPN/comments/8ww4h2/protonvpn_and_tesonet/e21tfqw/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtonVPN/comments/8ww4h2/protonvpn... What other VPN would you trust? Mullvad, absolutely no clue who runs it. Private Internet Access had claims about logs proven in federal court at some point in the past, but I really still don't trust it. Running your own VPN is one of the best options but you almost completely lose the relatively reasonable degree of anonymity that VPN providers serve to you. Depends on your objectives.
    - krn 8y ago
      > ProtonVPN was able to explain what happened to what I thought was a satisfactory degree ProtonVPN's explanation was extremely hardly believable[1]. > Mullvad, absolutely no clue who runs it. It's clearly stated on Mullvad's homepage[2]: > The legal entity operating Mullvad is Amagicom AB. [...] Amagicom is 100% owned by founders Fredrik Strömberg and Daniel Berntsson who are actively involved in the company. The rest of the team includes Robin Lövgren, Simon Andersson, Linus, Richard Mitra, Sanny Mitra, David Marby, Odd, Andrej Mihajlov, Janito Ferreira Filho, Elad Yarom and Jan Jonsson. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17775554 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17775554 [2] https://mullvad.net/en/ https://mullvad.net/en/
terrycody 8y ago
I got a free VPN plan can share with you, in a very very low cost, and you can use it for 1-2 years, at least, reply me with your email, I will contact u.

tormeh 8y ago

So, it's kinda like Tor, just that there's a free tier where you are an exit node, and a paid tier where you are not? I dunno, I don't really see what's so very wrong about this, as long as it's communicated clearly.

jazoom 8y ago
as long as it's communicated clearly. Exactly. It's not.

foob 8y ago

As part of a company in the residential proxy space [1], I just wanted to point out that this type of proxy is used in a very different way than low-end VPNs. Residential proxies tend to much more expensive, and this results in them being used almost exclusively for legitimate business purposes. It's even a standard practice to go through a KYC process before obtaining access to residential proxies in order to ensure that they'll be used responsibly. VPNs are often used for piracy, SPAM, and other nefarious purposes while residential proxies are primarily used to obtain access to data through web scraping. Large companies like Google are able to scrape the same sites without getting blocked already, and proxies help to level the playing field between innovative startups and established players. I can certainly understand the critique, but I strongly believe that the existence of residential proxies results in a lot more good than evil. [1] - https://intoli.com https://intoli.com

wild_preference 8y ago
My critique is that Hola VPN users don't realize that they are peers, nor what that entails even if you were to use more direct language than the vague "share your idle resources with the community!" rhetoric on Hola VPN's homepage. But since you brought it up, we both know residential proxies are especially attractive to bad actors and circumventors. It's like how we're both capable of pitching Tor as the emancipator of the sanctioned journalist trying to publish the truth in the face of mortal danger. Yet 99% of Tor traffic to my websites is malicious despite our feel-good hypotheticals. Of course, residential proxies are even better than Tor because a network can't just block the residential IP address space. ;)
- exolymph 8y ago
  Upvoted for realism, but I want to respond to this: > It's like how we're both capable of pitching Tor as the emancipator of the sanctioned journalist trying to publish the truth in the face of mortal danger. Yet 99% of Tor traffic to my websites is malicious despite our feel-good hypotheticals. Of course. That's the reality of freedom on the radical edges — bad actors need it more than pro-social actors. Many of us choose to support radical freedom(s) anyway because the capacity for anyone to act* freely is judged to outweigh the negative effects from bad actors. *browse, post, etc.

amingilani 8y ago

Whoa, as a luminati customer, I always wondered how they got these residential IPs. Now I know.

morpheuskafka 8y ago

> Hola works because it is a peer-to-peer network - you use the network and contribute to the network. To provide this service without charge to our community, Hola charges validated corporations for use of the network. For Hola users that do not want to be a peer in this network, we offer the Hola Premium service, which lets you only use the network, but not be a part of it Seems quite knowing to me. That same FAQ page, which is very detailed, even provides an explanation of what permissions are used.

0xb100db1ade 8y ago

Relevant section of EULA: http://archive.is/n7wCB#selection-645.1-651.45 http://archive.is/n7wCB#selection-645.1-651.45 > In return for free usage of Hola Free VPN Proxy, Hola Fake GPS location and Hola Video Accelerator, you may be a peer on the Luminati network. By doing so you agree to have read and accepted the terms of service of the Luminati SDK SLA. You may opt out by becoming a premium user.