5 ms·

Exactly! US-style capitalism is at least as bad as the system described in the article. People living to work rather than working to live. :-/

by mijkal 8y ago

lurquer 8y ago
At least as bad? I'd recommend you use your weekend to read up on Stalinist Russia.
- severino 8y ago
  Written by who? As far as the USSR doesn't exist anymore, it's not like people who never lived there, like me, can form an objective opinion about it.
  - dogma1138 8y ago
    The USSR collapsed less than 30 years ago finding people who lived during it on both sides isn’t hard neither it’s hard to find books on the subject from both sides of the iron curtain.
    - severino 8y ago
      It depends a lot on where you live. I've yet to meet anyone from the former Eastern block who was an adult by the time it collapsed. About books, that's the problem, they're all biased in one way or another. Some will depict East Germany as a police state living hell, while others describe it as a paradise as long as you didn't get involved in certain things. It's difficult to figure out what was it all about.
      - jschwartzi 8y ago
        > About books, that's the problem, they're all biased in one way or another. This is no excuse for not becoming more educated on the subject if you are ignorant. Every source is full of bias. That's why reading more than one book on the same subject is a worthwhile endeavor, because even a supposedly objective history is full of some editorializing of the events. The trick is to recognize when the author is editorializing and when they are presenting the events as they happened, and to take the editorializing as the author's point of view and the events as factual unless proven otherwise. Disagreeing with someone's opinion about something does not require you to disagree with their presentation of the facts.
      - dogma1138 8y ago
        Bias isn’t an issue everything has bias in it but in your case it wouldn’t be really hard to figure it out, East Germany was objectively a police state while it might not have been as bad as worst case for everyone it was never a paradise. There is a difference between editorializing and fabricating complete nonsense and unless you are looking for facts to reenforce your own bias it’s not hard to distinguish between them.
    - AnarchoYeasty 8y ago
      Loads of people today who lived under Soviet rule want to return to soviets rule. Capitalism destroyed Eastern Europe. It's horrible over there right now.
      - cpursley 8y ago
        Really? I'm living in Russia right now and can purchase an Advacodo from just about any grocery store.
        monocasa 8y ago
        If we're going to compare apples to apples (or really avocado to avocado), the US couldn't consistently put avocados on grocery store shelves outside of California until the late 1980s either. There were trade restrictions with Mexico, and California didn't yet have the capacity for much beyond local sales.
      - monocasa 8y ago
        Not sure why you're being downvoted... http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/06/29/in-russia-nostalgia-for-soviet-union-and-positive-feelings-about-stalin/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/06/29/in-russia-no...
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
        dogma1138 8y ago
        Because statistics are meaningless nearly no one surveyed actually lived under Stalin or spent time in the gulag. Russian propaganda has been working on “restoring” the image of Stalin and the USSR diligently for over two decades heck just a few days ago they’ve arrested a Russian historian who authored a book on Stalin for being unpatriotic. https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/170146 https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/170146 https://www.rferl.org/a/second-historian-of-stalin-s-crimes-arrested-on-morals-charges-in-karelia/29523402.html https://www.rferl.org/a/second-historian-of-stalin-s-crimes-...
  - waynecochran 8y ago
    Are you serious? Go read The Gulag Archipelago.
    - 8K71PS 8y ago
      Go read an actual scholarly look at the soviet prison and forced labour system, rather than essentially fiction.
  - ericd 8y ago
    It's not like the purges or the genocide of the Kulaks or the labor camps are heavily disputed subjects that may not have happened.
    - monocasa 8y ago
      Kulak isn't a ethnic group, so there can't be a "genocide of the Kulaks". The definition of Kulak were the landowners who wouldn't collectivize. And yeah, a bunch of them were executed doing shit like lighting grain on fire during a famine out of spite for the government.
      - ericd 8y ago
        Alright, what is the word for systematically killing a large group of people grouped by something other than ethnicity?
        filomeno 8y ago
        Death penalty? At least that's what they call it in the USA.
      - Fins 8y ago
        Or, for doing absolutely nothing. It didn't even matter if they actually were "rich" or not.
  - stale2002 8y ago
    Well, you could read the stuff that was written by the people who actually lived through it. Many people who grew up in the Soviet Union, are still alive today. There are even a couple in this very thread, and apparently they know very much how horrible it was.
    - severino 8y ago
      Yes, I could read that kind of stuff, but I would also find opinions of people who also grew up in the SU and miss it. In fact, I've recently read about polls where 60% of the russians regret the end of the USSR. So, I think this is not something black or white. You had to actually live there, not just watch it through television.
      - Fins 8y ago
        There very much are people who miss the USSR. Some are paid for it. Some honestly miss it because... well, I don't want to go into analyzing national mentality here, but there's a Russian saying that goes "if they are afraid of us, it means that they respect us". And people certainly were afraid of USSR. This perceived loss of respect drives a lot of nostalgia for the USSR.
- mijkal 8y ago
  WTF is wrong with your reading comprehension? The context was specifically regarding workers not having a weekend FFS! But do let’s talk about history … The people under what was the Soviet Union lived under terrible conditions long before the Bolsheviks come to power (I’m sure you remember that Peter guy, right?). It’s undeniable that the Soviet Union propelled Russia from a brutal, backwater country (even compared to contemporaries in its day) to a world super power in a remarkably short time period. That said: It should go without saying that it doesn’t excuse any atrocities they carried out, but since we’re contextualizing — they _never had_ the same notions of human rights as the West, and arguably the Soviets were somewhat of an improvement over the old Czar ways. Was it still brutal? Was Stalin a fucking asshole? Yes. Nobody’s denying that! To reiterate: No, it’d not be fun to live under Stalinist USSR! You’re being obtuse and arguing fallacies by making a leap from ‘Americans also have no weekend — today’ must mean I endorse Stalin. Even today, Russia finds itself under a strongman dictator asshole. Why is that? Back to this article: It attempts to paint a picture of a system devoid of a weekend that ultimately was considered a failure while ignoring both history and the striking similarities of our own system. It blames ‘Communists’. Historically, all around the world, the notion of a ‘weekend’ was unheard of. This was a new concept and faced considerable resistance when it was introduced in America. Today, Americans live under some very poor economic conditions that extends to all aspects of their lives — including mental and physical health. So _TODAY_, for many in America, there is no weekend since they have to work multiple jobs just to barely survive. Smashing, groovy, yay capitalism! And since you bring up oppressive regimes and we can’t possibly know what that’s like: You are aware America has a long history of slavery and genocide, extending through today with dire issues around police brutality and the (in)justice system that is a joke, especially for POC? Right? Right.
mudil 8y ago
I lived in the Soviet Union. And you have no idea what it is to live under the totalitarian regime, that is poor and oppressive. You have no idea! Your words above is an empty brainless rhetoric.
- 8K71PS 8y ago
  If you really think the stalinist USSR was any worse than modern capitalism I'd highly like to you to look at the plight of third world countries and the post colonial ties that have caused famine,war and chaos in many of them for over 100 years. Western capitalism is built off the abominable conditions it creates, at least the USSR had a measurable improvement and a move away from the horror of the 30s in the 50s.
  - Fins 8y ago
    And why pretty much every Soviet citizen would have killed for a business trip (leisure trips very pretty much impossible) to even the poorest third-world country?

Exactly! US-style capitalism is at least as bad as the system described in the article. People living to work rather than working to live. :-/

by mijkal 8y ago

Exactly! US-style capitalism is at least as bad as the system described in the article. People living to work rather than working to live. :-/

lurquer 8y ago

At least as bad? I'd recommend you use your weekend to read up on Stalinist Russia.

severino 8y ago
Written by who? As far as the USSR doesn't exist anymore, it's not like people who never lived there, like me, can form an objective opinion about it.
- dogma1138 8y ago
  The USSR collapsed less than 30 years ago finding people who lived during it on both sides isn’t hard neither it’s hard to find books on the subject from both sides of the iron curtain.
  - severino 8y ago
    It depends a lot on where you live. I've yet to meet anyone from the former Eastern block who was an adult by the time it collapsed. About books, that's the problem, they're all biased in one way or another. Some will depict East Germany as a police state living hell, while others describe it as a paradise as long as you didn't get involved in certain things. It's difficult to figure out what was it all about.
    - jschwartzi 8y ago
      > About books, that's the problem, they're all biased in one way or another. This is no excuse for not becoming more educated on the subject if you are ignorant. Every source is full of bias. That's why reading more than one book on the same subject is a worthwhile endeavor, because even a supposedly objective history is full of some editorializing of the events. The trick is to recognize when the author is editorializing and when they are presenting the events as they happened, and to take the editorializing as the author's point of view and the events as factual unless proven otherwise. Disagreeing with someone's opinion about something does not require you to disagree with their presentation of the facts.
    - dogma1138 8y ago
      Bias isn’t an issue everything has bias in it but in your case it wouldn’t be really hard to figure it out, East Germany was objectively a police state while it might not have been as bad as worst case for everyone it was never a paradise. There is a difference between editorializing and fabricating complete nonsense and unless you are looking for facts to reenforce your own bias it’s not hard to distinguish between them.
  - AnarchoYeasty 8y ago
    Loads of people today who lived under Soviet rule want to return to soviets rule. Capitalism destroyed Eastern Europe. It's horrible over there right now.
    - cpursley 8y ago
      Really? I'm living in Russia right now and can purchase an Advacodo from just about any grocery store.
      - monocasa 8y ago
        If we're going to compare apples to apples (or really avocado to avocado), the US couldn't consistently put avocados on grocery store shelves outside of California until the late 1980s either. There were trade restrictions with Mexico, and California didn't yet have the capacity for much beyond local sales.
    - monocasa 8y ago
      Not sure why you're being downvoted... http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/06/29/in-russia-nostalgia-for-soviet-union-and-positive-feelings-about-stalin/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/06/29/in-russia-no...
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - dogma1138 8y ago
        Because statistics are meaningless nearly no one surveyed actually lived under Stalin or spent time in the gulag. Russian propaganda has been working on “restoring” the image of Stalin and the USSR diligently for over two decades heck just a few days ago they’ve arrested a Russian historian who authored a book on Stalin for being unpatriotic. https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/170146 https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/170146 https://www.rferl.org/a/second-historian-of-stalin-s-crimes-arrested-on-morals-charges-in-karelia/29523402.html https://www.rferl.org/a/second-historian-of-stalin-s-crimes-...
- waynecochran 8y ago
  Are you serious? Go read The Gulag Archipelago.
  - 8K71PS 8y ago
    Go read an actual scholarly look at the soviet prison and forced labour system, rather than essentially fiction.
- ericd 8y ago
  It's not like the purges or the genocide of the Kulaks or the labor camps are heavily disputed subjects that may not have happened.
  - monocasa 8y ago
    Kulak isn't a ethnic group, so there can't be a "genocide of the Kulaks". The definition of Kulak were the landowners who wouldn't collectivize. And yeah, a bunch of them were executed doing shit like lighting grain on fire during a famine out of spite for the government.
    - ericd 8y ago
      Alright, what is the word for systematically killing a large group of people grouped by something other than ethnicity?
      - filomeno 8y ago
        Death penalty? At least that's what they call it in the USA.
    - Fins 8y ago
      Or, for doing absolutely nothing. It didn't even matter if they actually were "rich" or not.
- stale2002 8y ago
  Well, you could read the stuff that was written by the people who actually lived through it. Many people who grew up in the Soviet Union, are still alive today. There are even a couple in this very thread, and apparently they know very much how horrible it was.
  - severino 8y ago
    Yes, I could read that kind of stuff, but I would also find opinions of people who also grew up in the SU and miss it. In fact, I've recently read about polls where 60% of the russians regret the end of the USSR. So, I think this is not something black or white. You had to actually live there, not just watch it through television.
    - Fins 8y ago
      There very much are people who miss the USSR. Some are paid for it. Some honestly miss it because... well, I don't want to go into analyzing national mentality here, but there's a Russian saying that goes "if they are afraid of us, it means that they respect us". And people certainly were afraid of USSR. This perceived loss of respect drives a lot of nostalgia for the USSR.
mijkal 8y ago
WTF is wrong with your reading comprehension? The context was specifically regarding workers not having a weekend FFS! But do let’s talk about history … The people under what was the Soviet Union lived under terrible conditions long before the Bolsheviks come to power (I’m sure you remember that Peter guy, right?). It’s undeniable that the Soviet Union propelled Russia from a brutal, backwater country (even compared to contemporaries in its day) to a world super power in a remarkably short time period. That said: It should go without saying that it doesn’t excuse any atrocities they carried out, but since we’re contextualizing — they _never had_ the same notions of human rights as the West, and arguably the Soviets were somewhat of an improvement over the old Czar ways. Was it still brutal? Was Stalin a fucking asshole? Yes. Nobody’s denying that! To reiterate: No, it’d not be fun to live under Stalinist USSR! You’re being obtuse and arguing fallacies by making a leap from ‘Americans also have no weekend — today’ must mean I endorse Stalin. Even today, Russia finds itself under a strongman dictator asshole. Why is that? Back to this article: It attempts to paint a picture of a system devoid of a weekend that ultimately was considered a failure while ignoring both history and the striking similarities of our own system. It blames ‘Communists’. Historically, all around the world, the notion of a ‘weekend’ was unheard of. This was a new concept and faced considerable resistance when it was introduced in America. Today, Americans live under some very poor economic conditions that extends to all aspects of their lives — including mental and physical health. So _TODAY_, for many in America, there is no weekend since they have to work multiple jobs just to barely survive. Smashing, groovy, yay capitalism! And since you bring up oppressive regimes and we can’t possibly know what that’s like: You are aware America has a long history of slavery and genocide, extending through today with dire issues around police brutality and the (in)justice system that is a joke, especially for POC? Right? Right.

mudil 8y ago

I lived in the Soviet Union. And you have no idea what it is to live under the totalitarian regime, that is poor and oppressive. You have no idea! Your words above is an empty brainless rhetoric.

8K71PS 8y ago
If you really think the stalinist USSR was any worse than modern capitalism I'd highly like to you to look at the plight of third world countries and the post colonial ties that have caused famine,war and chaos in many of them for over 100 years. Western capitalism is built off the abominable conditions it creates, at least the USSR had a measurable improvement and a move away from the horror of the 30s in the 50s.
- Fins 8y ago
  And why pretty much every Soviet citizen would have killed for a business trip (leisure trips very pretty much impossible) to even the poorest third-world country?