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It was similar in Romania, but it lasted until 1989. The workweek was 6 days long. My parents dealt with it until the revolution. It’s funny how socialism was w

It was similar in Romania, but it lasted until 1989. The workweek was 6 days long. My parents dealt with it until the revolution. It’s funny how socialism was worse for the average worker in that way.

crdoconnor 8y ago
Ceaucescu's hated austerity was because it was attempting to pay off the national debt to western countries. There are plenty of other notionally capitalist countries that have suffered bitterly under a similar kind of debt yoke (e.g. Greece).
lostlogin 8y ago
Is that socialism though? It did begin that way but sticking a label on a savage dictatorship doesn’t make it true.
- pjc50 8y ago
  "Dictatorship of the proletariat" necessarily collapses into plain dictatorship almost immediately, because there's no room for pluralism and dissenting factions. That's the problem with all the Leninist/Trotskyite/Maoist inheritors of Marxism. It was also the key difference between the social-democrat states of Europe west of the Berlin wall and the Communist states east of it.
  - 8K71PS 8y ago
    No it doesn't , DotP necessarily means factionalism and such, democratic centralism simply necessitates an agreement to be abided to by all constituents of said group
    - dang 8y ago
      Since this account has been using HN primarily for ideological battle, we've banned it. That's not allowed here, because it destroys the intellectual curiosity this site exists for. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Much more explanation if anyone wants it: https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0&query=by:dang%20primarily%20line https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme... https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0&query=by:dang%20ideological https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...
gnulinux 8y ago
Because it wasn't socialism. It was a centrally planned capitalist economy. There were still commodity production, accumulation of value and a State that regulates value. The only way in which USSR and the Eastern Block was socialist is the way they called themselves. If they called themselves aliens, it would make about the same sense. Even Lenin called the system "State Capitalism" in his works. Socialism in the classic Marxist sense -- which is the exact same thing as communism, communism/socialism divide nonsense comes from Stalin and makes no sense -- is the society after capitalist economy collapses, and the natural force that makes capitalism possible is value generation. It's simply by-definition not possible to talk about socialism in a society that still has value (money), the division of labor (job), class (worker vs employer) and state (a body that regulates trade which is integral to capitalism). Marxism is above all materialism and ideologies like Marxism-Leninism is the most anti-Marxist thing imaginable.
- vibrato 8y ago
  How many millions need to die before you’re convinced the problem isn’t mere implementation details?
  - prolikewh0a 8y ago
    How many millions need to die around the world every single year from global Capitalism before you're convinced this isn't a good system? The whole "how many people needed to die due to Communism" is a poor argument when Capitalism has without a doubt killed far more people since the industrial revolution.
    - vibrato 8y ago
      Thanks to capitalism, TOTAL numbers of people living in poverty are decreasing at an unprecedented rate. Every global measure we look at shows quality of life improvements like this, as capitalism and democracy have spread. https://ourworldindata.org/extreme-poverty https://ourworldindata.org/extreme-poverty Also, I do regard starving and enslaving constituents as much worse ethically than conquering another tribe or nation.

crdoconnor 8y ago

Ceaucescu's hated austerity was because it was attempting to pay off the national debt to western countries. There are plenty of other notionally capitalist countries that have suffered bitterly under a similar kind of debt yoke (e.g. Greece).

lostlogin 8y ago

Is that socialism though? It did begin that way but sticking a label on a savage dictatorship doesn’t make it true.

pjc50 8y ago
"Dictatorship of the proletariat" necessarily collapses into plain dictatorship almost immediately, because there's no room for pluralism and dissenting factions. That's the problem with all the Leninist/Trotskyite/Maoist inheritors of Marxism. It was also the key difference between the social-democrat states of Europe west of the Berlin wall and the Communist states east of it.
- 8K71PS 8y ago
  No it doesn't , DotP necessarily means factionalism and such, democratic centralism simply necessitates an agreement to be abided to by all constituents of said group
  - dang 8y ago
    Since this account has been using HN primarily for ideological battle, we've banned it. That's not allowed here, because it destroys the intellectual curiosity this site exists for. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Much more explanation if anyone wants it: https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0&query=by:dang%20primarily%20line https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme... https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0&query=by:dang%20ideological https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...

gnulinux 8y ago

Because it wasn't socialism. It was a centrally planned capitalist economy. There were still commodity production, accumulation of value and a State that regulates value. The only way in which USSR and the Eastern Block was socialist is the way they called themselves. If they called themselves aliens, it would make about the same sense. Even Lenin called the system "State Capitalism" in his works. Socialism in the classic Marxist sense -- which is the exact same thing as communism, communism/socialism divide nonsense comes from Stalin and makes no sense -- is the society after capitalist economy collapses, and the natural force that makes capitalism possible is value generation. It's simply by-definition not possible to talk about socialism in a society that still has value (money), the division of labor (job), class (worker vs employer) and state (a body that regulates trade which is integral to capitalism). Marxism is above all materialism and ideologies like Marxism-Leninism is the most anti-Marxist thing imaginable.

vibrato 8y ago
How many millions need to die before you’re convinced the problem isn’t mere implementation details?
- prolikewh0a 8y ago
  How many millions need to die around the world every single year from global Capitalism before you're convinced this isn't a good system? The whole "how many people needed to die due to Communism" is a poor argument when Capitalism has without a doubt killed far more people since the industrial revolution.
  - vibrato 8y ago
    Thanks to capitalism, TOTAL numbers of people living in poverty are decreasing at an unprecedented rate. Every global measure we look at shows quality of life improvements like this, as capitalism and democracy have spread. https://ourworldindata.org/extreme-poverty https://ourworldindata.org/extreme-poverty Also, I do regard starving and enslaving constituents as much worse ethically than conquering another tribe or nation.