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Somehow Westerners going to China seem to think that they matter a whole lot to the Chinese government. The ego-bruising truth is that you don't matter in the s

by Bakary 8y ago

Somehow Westerners going to China seem to think that they matter a whole lot to the Chinese government. The ego-bruising truth is that you don't matter in the slightest. The airports are actually less dystopian than in the US by a great measure, and nobody really cares what you might have on your hard drives, what blog posts with a whopping 62 shares you might have made in the past or whatever other crypto-democratic scenario you might fantasize about. To get in trouble you really have to go out of your way to do so by actively organizing unrest. Chinese people do talk openly about sensitive topics, they just probably won't be too interested in doing so with someone who doesn't speak Chinese well, although it did happen to me a few times (in a university setting, mind you). Just use common sense in conversations. Get a VPN, read reviews to check if it works in China. If you need a pay-as-you-go SIM card, make sure your phone has the right bands. Be prepared for a slow connection sometimes. That's about it.

hazz99 8y ago
> Somehow Westerners going to China seem to think that they matter a whole lot to the Chinese government. The ego-bruising truth is that you don't matter in the slightest. Although I believe this is the truth, you'll forgive me for taking precautions when traveling to a country that has imprisoned people with similar views to my own. I'm not worried about that happening, per se, moreso afraid of being rude and knowing what to avoid. > To get in trouble you really have to go out of your way to do so by actively organizing unrest. This is comforting, and good to hear from someone with more experience than I. > Chinese people do talk openly about sensitive topics, they just probably won't be too interested in doing so with someone who doesn't speak Chinese well, although it did happen to me a few times (in a university setting, mind you). I'm going on a program between universities, so I hope this happens! I love a good philosophical/political discussion, which is why I made this HN post, because I was afraid that my tendencies could land me in hot water. Thanks for the reality check though, and for the rest of the advice.
- Bakary 8y ago
  Cheers, apologies for being a little caustic. The reason is that once you drop the preconceptions and get into the vibe it makes your stay 100% better. China is usually safer than most Western nations, the worst that usually happens to foreigners is that you might get scammed by a taxi driver (not counting foolish self-inflicted problems such as drug use or visa issues) The best advice I can give you is to be as outgoing as you can be since I'm assuming that you are in an at least second-tier city where there is a lot to do: you will be richly rewarded.
forkLding 8y ago
Never thought about it like that but yeah, makes me realize how annoying the TSA are after experiencing both China and USA. The TSA are "miles ahead" with their body scanning technologies and implementation etc.
fermienrico 8y ago
I go to China many times a year and I sort of agree with you. Chinese govt has more important things to do than to go after you. But the problem is that China is a huge country with 1.4 billion people. Just the sheer scale of things lend itself to the impossibility of managing and scrutinizing everyone. China simply doesn't have enough police and authorities. However, conceptually the government wants to get in everyone's business and if you are middle class - not so much. If you're someone with influence and power, you will need to be in bed with the government. Also, the middle class is literally living to get by, they are being controlled through borderline dystopian schemes. Obviously, westerners have a deep philosophical problem with this and rightfully so. I wish China was an open democracy, I really wish it was. The people are incredibly talented, smart and motivated.
- dogma1138 8y ago
  It’s not clear if China as an open democracy can actually work in a manner that would result in a net positive to the people. Look at India it’s much more of a free and open democracy than China but it’s also a much worse place overall. The reality of governing 1.5 billion people might force you to rethink if a western style social democracy is applicable or even the best solution. There is something unique about a country which seem to both somewhat care about its population and benefits form the power and single vision that comes form a single party authoritarianism. When China sets its mind on something there are no ifs and buts they just do it and that seems to be the critical difference between them an India they don’t need to appease 5 billion different opinions about every thing. China also seems to be somewhat of a meritocracy at least on paper with a large number of its ruling party members having engineering and exact sciences degrees more so than most countries where career politicians often opt out for law, economics and political science degrees. Splitting China into smaller semi autonomous states might work better for applying democracy but it also might cause much more instability in the region so I’m not entirely sure that there is a good solution for them. In fact to some scary degree China might be a pilot for what would succeed democracy when you actually have enough technology and infrastructure for a more centralized government.
everdrive 8y ago
The problem is they do care about some westerners. How do you know which ones? You don't --- you assume you may be one of the ones they care about, and act accordingly.

by Bakary 8y ago

hazz99 8y ago

> Somehow Westerners going to China seem to think that they matter a whole lot to the Chinese government. The ego-bruising truth is that you don't matter in the slightest. Although I believe this is the truth, you'll forgive me for taking precautions when traveling to a country that has imprisoned people with similar views to my own. I'm not worried about that happening, per se, moreso afraid of being rude and knowing what to avoid. > To get in trouble you really have to go out of your way to do so by actively organizing unrest. This is comforting, and good to hear from someone with more experience than I. > Chinese people do talk openly about sensitive topics, they just probably won't be too interested in doing so with someone who doesn't speak Chinese well, although it did happen to me a few times (in a university setting, mind you). I'm going on a program between universities, so I hope this happens! I love a good philosophical/political discussion, which is why I made this HN post, because I was afraid that my tendencies could land me in hot water. Thanks for the reality check though, and for the rest of the advice.

Bakary 8y ago
Cheers, apologies for being a little caustic. The reason is that once you drop the preconceptions and get into the vibe it makes your stay 100% better. China is usually safer than most Western nations, the worst that usually happens to foreigners is that you might get scammed by a taxi driver (not counting foolish self-inflicted problems such as drug use or visa issues) The best advice I can give you is to be as outgoing as you can be since I'm assuming that you are in an at least second-tier city where there is a lot to do: you will be richly rewarded.

forkLding 8y ago

Never thought about it like that but yeah, makes me realize how annoying the TSA are after experiencing both China and USA. The TSA are "miles ahead" with their body scanning technologies and implementation etc.

fermienrico 8y ago

I go to China many times a year and I sort of agree with you. Chinese govt has more important things to do than to go after you. But the problem is that China is a huge country with 1.4 billion people. Just the sheer scale of things lend itself to the impossibility of managing and scrutinizing everyone. China simply doesn't have enough police and authorities. However, conceptually the government wants to get in everyone's business and if you are middle class - not so much. If you're someone with influence and power, you will need to be in bed with the government. Also, the middle class is literally living to get by, they are being controlled through borderline dystopian schemes. Obviously, westerners have a deep philosophical problem with this and rightfully so. I wish China was an open democracy, I really wish it was. The people are incredibly talented, smart and motivated.

dogma1138 8y ago
It’s not clear if China as an open democracy can actually work in a manner that would result in a net positive to the people. Look at India it’s much more of a free and open democracy than China but it’s also a much worse place overall. The reality of governing 1.5 billion people might force you to rethink if a western style social democracy is applicable or even the best solution. There is something unique about a country which seem to both somewhat care about its population and benefits form the power and single vision that comes form a single party authoritarianism. When China sets its mind on something there are no ifs and buts they just do it and that seems to be the critical difference between them an India they don’t need to appease 5 billion different opinions about every thing. China also seems to be somewhat of a meritocracy at least on paper with a large number of its ruling party members having engineering and exact sciences degrees more so than most countries where career politicians often opt out for law, economics and political science degrees. Splitting China into smaller semi autonomous states might work better for applying democracy but it also might cause much more instability in the region so I’m not entirely sure that there is a good solution for them. In fact to some scary degree China might be a pilot for what would succeed democracy when you actually have enough technology and infrastructure for a more centralized government.

everdrive 8y ago

The problem is they do care about some westerners. How do you know which ones? You don't --- you assume you may be one of the ones they care about, and act accordingly.