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What's interesting is how the macro-cooperation game gets completely ignored by so many people when they play a game like this. If you're never going to interac

What's interesting is how the macro-cooperation game gets completely ignored by so many people when they play a game like this. If you're never going to interact with someone again, then betrayal has no long term consequences, but if it's someone you plan to continue a relationship with in real life, then betrayal, even if it's "just a game", will damage that relationship, possibly terminally so. It's almost like our instinctive zero-sum behaviors short-circuit our higher reasoning just enough in this simulated environment to suppress thought of the long term real-world relational consequences of our actions.

whack 8y ago
> if it's someone you plan to continue a relationship with in real life, then betrayal, even if it's "just a game", will damage that relationship, possibly terminally so. Do you also hold it against someone in real life, if they bluff you while playing poker? What you're saying might be true as a descriptive statement - many people can't separate gameplay from reality. But betrayal is a key mechanic that's designed into the fabric of the game, and I would encourage everyone not judge someone for using a intentionally designed feature in the game.
- sanderjd 8y ago
  A poker "bluff" has always seemed poorly named to me. You aren't making any claims about your hand either way, you're just making bets. So a "bluff" is actually just the other players guessing wrong at what you're holding.
  - fjsolwmv 8y ago
    That's an overly reductive view of poker that misses the point of the game. If a high bid isn't an implied threat of high cards, what is it? Bidding is correlated to hand strength and player stacks, so a bid is a statement about your hand and the game, albeit a fuzzy one.
- nyolfen 8y ago
  revealing your ability to be explicitly socially deceptive and manipulative can really undermine other peoples' real-life trust in you, especially if they notice you're particularly good at it
nerdponx 8y ago
I'm not sure. My friends and I know that we are all vicious backstabbers in Catan, and never trust each other.
tonypace 8y ago
There is a deep resonance to the way this game encourages lying to protect an alliance that is already being betrayed. This inspires paranoia along those who have successfully been defeated.

whack 8y ago

> if it's someone you plan to continue a relationship with in real life, then betrayal, even if it's "just a game", will damage that relationship, possibly terminally so. Do you also hold it against someone in real life, if they bluff you while playing poker? What you're saying might be true as a descriptive statement - many people can't separate gameplay from reality. But betrayal is a key mechanic that's designed into the fabric of the game, and I would encourage everyone not judge someone for using a intentionally designed feature in the game.

sanderjd 8y ago
A poker "bluff" has always seemed poorly named to me. You aren't making any claims about your hand either way, you're just making bets. So a "bluff" is actually just the other players guessing wrong at what you're holding.
- fjsolwmv 8y ago
  That's an overly reductive view of poker that misses the point of the game. If a high bid isn't an implied threat of high cards, what is it? Bidding is correlated to hand strength and player stacks, so a bid is a statement about your hand and the game, albeit a fuzzy one.
nyolfen 8y ago
revealing your ability to be explicitly socially deceptive and manipulative can really undermine other peoples' real-life trust in you, especially if they notice you're particularly good at it

nerdponx 8y ago

I'm not sure. My friends and I know that we are all vicious backstabbers in Catan, and never trust each other.

tonypace 8y ago

There is a deep resonance to the way this game encourages lying to protect an alliance that is already being betrayed. This inspires paranoia along those who have successfully been defeated.