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Ask HN: I'm going to China. What privacy precautions can/should I take?

• pmehta123 8y ago
  I was in China last month, there is nothing to worry about. I did not face any issue as such except for the language barrier. So, download google translate. For VPN - Get VPNExpress app before leaving your country. All apps work great with it. If you are going for a long time, I recommend getting a paid version of VPNExpress. Also, download didi app for cabs. And, get a sim card from the airport. Mine costed 50 Yen for 1GB data and 50 minutes of calling. Have a safe trip :)
  • rqs 8y ago
    Install Google Translate was really a good tip. And Maybe some paper strips with translated sentences printed on it could also be helpful. And don't forget to download a map app, not only it can prevent taxi scam to a degree, also it can help you ... well, navigate. I could recommend AutoNavi[0], but I'm not sure about whether or not it had English version. [0] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.autonavi.minimap https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.autonavi.m...
  • Markoff 8y ago
    they don't have yens in China
• catkitcourt 8y ago
  Buy a new phone. Use Project Fi. Throw or sell your phone to other people at US or China after your trip finished.
  • rapnie 8y ago
    > Throw or sell your phone [..] Could you expand? Because it may be compromised? If so, shouldn't sell it then (at least abroad).
    • j16sdiz 8y ago
      The immigration stuff may request you to plug in some usb cable for “scanning”. This is done in sample base. Depends on how much you trust the China authority, you may or may not want to reset password/reflash stock rom/throw away the phone
      • schrodinger 8y ago
        Does this happen if you’re just laying over in China as well? Planning on flying through China to Thailand.
        • jason_slack 8y ago
          This has never happened to me at all regardless of how I was passing through.
        • j16sdiz 8y ago
          No. This mostly happened on people who go to North West part of China.
• shanghaiaway 8y ago
  Get a VPN, that's all.
• z2 8y ago
  Use a non-Chinese carrier if possible (if you are from the US, Project Fi, or the T-Mobile plan with unlimited international roaming come to mind). You get a built-in tunnel to the home country and full access to the internet that way. Lots of basic VPN connections are actively killed though you probably won't be punished for trying. Ssh tunneling works fine. Maps in China are scrambled by some random distance (ostensibly on national security grounds), so you may want to download a local mapping app such as Baidu maps to get your true location and not be 200 meters displaced in a random direction. Statistically much of China is under-policed [0], especially in the east, so while it depends on where you are, if you don't draw lots of attention to yourself, nobody really cares. 0: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_number_of_police_officers https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_depend...
  • desdiv 8y ago
    >Statistically much of China is under-policed [0] That table is slightly misleading depending on how you count police forces. China's numbers are slightly shewed due to the 1.5 million strong People's Armed Police[0] not being included. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Armed_Police https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Armed_Police
• liulantao 8y ago
  We (in China) use VPN software everyday to get access to most of the website (FB/Google/Twitter/IG/Slack, etc). It's illegal to sell VPN service without government permission, but no one will catch you if you are a user. Almost all the Chinese business accept mobile payments, if you do care about privacy, you should prepare enough RMBs.
• lozenge 8y ago
  Don't discuss Chinese politics, laws, policies etc. Don't offer VPN to others. However, you can acknowledge the firewall existing, e.g. you can say "I can't access my email, can I send you this photo with Bluetooth/WeChat instead?" Chinese know the firewall exists, they just mostly don't care (and if they do care they would never tell you about it)
  • hazz99 8y ago
    Is this a politeness thing (aka. most western countries) or a legitimate do-not-do-this thing? If it's just politeness, then obv. I won't discuss it most of the time. If its more intense then that however, I won't discuss it at all.
    • intro-b 8y ago
      It's mostly just a social politeness/cultural thing, especially since most people wouldn't really want to engage in a long/complicated conversation with someone who probably isn't that great or fluent in Chinese Even if a tourist gets into a loud shouting match about Chinese politics in a public space, the faux pas would be more social embarrassment than actual fear of state-sponsored retribution
    • forkLding 8y ago
      Chinese people either like the firewall or hate it due to their political views and internet usage but thats about it, to them its a part of life because they grew up with it. VPN depends, most Chinese people just might not have a clue what you mean when you say VPN cos they're not that technical. In terms of Chinese politics, you can discuss depending on who you're talking to, most kids dont care and others (rural folk) might be full-on red china and supportive of Xi Jinping cos he's popular in the Trumpian sense. Just be generally courteous and understanding to people who talk to you and you will be fine.
• evgen 8y ago
  It would be best if you did not take your personal laptop. Get a cheap chromebook and put your important data on a cloud service of some sort. Once you pass through customs you need to completely wipe the laptop, re-install a trusted version, then pull down the data you need. Wipe the laptop again before you leave and be prepared to just leave it behind if it ever left your physical control during your trip. Find out which VPN services are currently working from China and also familiarize yourself with shadowsocks. You need a disposable phone that does not have any data on it (contacts, notes, photos, etc) that you do not want to share with the Chinese government. If possible you should get a SIM card from Hong Kong and use that since it is less likely to have VPN and other connections blocked. Beyond this you should look to some of the online guides out there targeted at journalists and how they can protect themselves, most of the same rules will apply to you in this situation.
  • thisgoodlife 8y ago
    Did you forget /s? or are you really that paranoid?
    • Havoc 8y ago
      Which part sounds paranoid to you?
      • GordonS 8y ago
        Not taking your personal laptop and using a burner phone both sound unnecessarily paranoid to me at least.
    • zeeZ 8y ago
      If my options at the border were to give someone full unsupervised access to my entire digital life or refuse and be inconvenienced for several hours it outright denied, I'd much rather give them something I can throw away after. I know I'm not important, but my data is, to me. If I took your toothbrush to a back room for an hour without telling you what I'm going to do with it, would you still use it? After reading the occasional story about Chinese [0] and US border BS every now and then, for years, I just don't want to take that risk. [0] Chinese Border Police Install Software on My Android Device - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17249590 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17249590
• fermienrico 8y ago
  Set up a VPN using Streisand [1]. I usually setup a Digital Ocean server in Singapore running Shadowsocks VPN using Streisand. Forget about all other comments here suggesting a particular VPN service. Trust me, this is the way to go. I go to China for work multiple times a year. Not only will you suffer with sporadic speeds, latency, dropped connections and you’ll need to pre-download clients or configuration files before you enter China in some cases (Astrill). Stop looking further, Streisand gives you options for your own private VPN. Delete the server once you’re out of there. Streisand is a godsent when you need VPN and you don’t know which ones are not blocked without going to dozens of shady forums. Also, it’s obvious but do not discuss politics in China with your friends or coworkers. Enjoy food that normal middle class eats at extremely crowded high turnover lunch places. You won’t get sick and the food is going to be amazing. Don’t have anything that is “free”. It’s a trap. [1] https://github.com/StreisandEffect/streisand https://github.com/StreisandEffect/streisand
  • junnan 8y ago
    I've never used Streisand before. What I normal do is using Shadowsocks directly (part of what Streisand offers). It has Windows, Linux, OSX, and Android clients. Third party IOS client is also available.
  • hazz99 8y ago
    Streisand looks fantastic, but I'm a little confused on the installation steps (not super skilled with AWS, still a student) Do I just run these on an EC2 instance? git clone https://github.com/StreisandEffect/streisand.git && cd streisand ./util/venv-dependencies.sh ./venv source ./venv/bin/activate And then there will be a HTML file which will explain how I can connect over SSL from my client device. Is that it?
    • fermienrico 8y ago
      There are a few steps but you're on the right path. Read the documentation on Github and then once you run `./streisand`, you just need to follow instructions on CLI. It will ask you to get an API key from Digital Ocean in my case, location of the droplet, etc. It will create a new droplet automatically and get it up and running in about 20-30 mins. Once you're done, you'll get a link to login in your server and download configuration/clients.
• nakedrobot2 8y ago
  People here are generally a bit over-paranoid. I've been to china many times, not once did anyone search my phone or laptop. the CCP cannot screw their way into your hard disk. Just get a VPN and make sure it's working before you get there, that's really about it. You don't need to get a new computer or leave that one behind when you leave. The food in china can be great, but it can be better in various chinatowns in the world due to higher quality ingredients.
• Canada 8y ago
  I'm assuming you're going to a major city and aren't visiting a sensitive area like Tibet or Xinjiang. I highly recommend using a foreign mobile carrier so that you won't need to bother with a VPN on your mobile. It's just easier when you're new there. Dissidents are kidnapped for speaking out, that is true, but that's because they have potential to influence the masses. You probably don't have that kind of influence, so nobody cares what you think or say. You should definitely prepare a VPN before you leave. I recommend Shadowsocks. You can talk about it, no problem. I would avoid doing so on WeChat however, because who knows, maybe the regime will decide to use that against you in the future.
• jason_slack 8y ago
  I recently spent 2 months in China 1. WeChat and Alipay. It was hard for me to get vendors to accept paper money. 2. Google Translate 3. The plane ride might be hard if you normally use your devices. I was not allowed to watch my devices. I had to only watch pre-approved content from the planes entertainment system. 4. VPN. I even went as far and carried a portable router that supported vpn and tor. 5. I bought a cellphone there and a cheap data package and used this phone for everything including Baidu Maps. Translating. Paying. If doesn’t work here in the US even so I will save for my next trip. 6. If spoken to by the police answer then. Same with customs and border patrol. Don’t be a smart ass. 7. People are open to talking. They know about the great firewall and their countries politics. Don’t say anything negative about President Xi. You may offend the people you are talking with. The locals would much rather ask you questions about the USA. 8. Try to learn some basic Chinese. It will help. I could give you a crash course if you want. 9. Depending upon where you are staying you may get cards slid under your door advertising prostitution. I asked friend about this and they were mixed wether it was a setup or not. I noticed it was a high school age boy that was sliding them under the doors. His after school job I guess. 10. I took my own laptop. I was never searched. Nothing ever taken from me. I used security precautions just in case though.
  • rqs 8y ago
    > It was hard for me to get vendors to accept paper money. In this case, by law (Law of the People's Republic of China on Commercial Banks to be specific), refuse to accept RMB as domestic commercial payment in China is illegal. It won't help you that much (unless you want to sue them), but you still have upper hand there to ask them to do you some favor.
  • GordonS 8y ago
    I find the 1st point rather odd; I've spent a lot of time in Beijing and Shanghai, and visited several other places including Guilin, Nanjing and Suzhou, and never once had any problems using cash.
    • jason_slack 8y ago
      I was in Xiamen, Fujian. Mostly street vendors didn’t want to take it. They would either refuse or say they could not make change so I needed to buy more food or not accept change and come back another day and they would remember I overpaid.
• Bakary 8y ago
  Somehow Westerners going to China seem to think that they matter a whole lot to the Chinese government. The ego-bruising truth is that you don't matter in the slightest. The airports are actually less dystopian than in the US by a great measure, and nobody really cares what you might have on your hard drives, what blog posts with a whopping 62 shares you might have made in the past or whatever other crypto-democratic scenario you might fantasize about. To get in trouble you really have to go out of your way to do so by actively organizing unrest. Chinese people do talk openly about sensitive topics, they just probably won't be too interested in doing so with someone who doesn't speak Chinese well, although it did happen to me a few times (in a university setting, mind you). Just use common sense in conversations. Get a VPN, read reviews to check if it works in China. If you need a pay-as-you-go SIM card, make sure your phone has the right bands. Be prepared for a slow connection sometimes. That's about it.
  • hazz99 8y ago
    > Somehow Westerners going to China seem to think that they matter a whole lot to the Chinese government. The ego-bruising truth is that you don't matter in the slightest. Although I believe this is the truth, you'll forgive me for taking precautions when traveling to a country that has imprisoned people with similar views to my own. I'm not worried about that happening, per se, moreso afraid of being rude and knowing what to avoid. > To get in trouble you really have to go out of your way to do so by actively organizing unrest. This is comforting, and good to hear from someone with more experience than I. > Chinese people do talk openly about sensitive topics, they just probably won't be too interested in doing so with someone who doesn't speak Chinese well, although it did happen to me a few times (in a university setting, mind you). I'm going on a program between universities, so I hope this happens! I love a good philosophical/political discussion, which is why I made this HN post, because I was afraid that my tendencies could land me in hot water. Thanks for the reality check though, and for the rest of the advice.
    • Bakary 8y ago
      Cheers, apologies for being a little caustic. The reason is that once you drop the preconceptions and get into the vibe it makes your stay 100% better. China is usually safer than most Western nations, the worst that usually happens to foreigners is that you might get scammed by a taxi driver (not counting foolish self-inflicted problems such as drug use or visa issues) The best advice I can give you is to be as outgoing as you can be since I'm assuming that you are in an at least second-tier city where there is a lot to do: you will be richly rewarded.
• catherd 8y ago
  Source: I've been here 4 years, pretty much always in Shenzhen. 1) If you will be using wifi/landline internet (vs. always tethering to your phone), get a paid VPN that advertises working through the GFW and make sure it works before you leave. YMMV, but I've tried SSH tunnels, shadowsocks, lantern, streisand, and probably a few other open/DIY methods. In my experience none of them work for more than a day or so before they start getting throttled or completely blocked. If you are constantly moving from one connection to another it might be different. Your results could also be different in a different area of the country. 2) Get a working foreign SIM that lists China somewhere in the contract, or buy a Hong Kong "cross-border" one (not a generic HK one, which will only work in HK)... they won't be blocked. The Hong Kong one will likely only work in Shenzhen and Guangzhou, but it's probably cheaper than setting up something based on a US SIM. 3) Don't worry about your laptop/phone unless you are a journalist or work at a target for industrial espionage (for example, FAANG) 4) Don't go out of your way to start controversy, but certain people can have interesting conversations about sensitive topics. Give it a little time and ease into it if you feel like you need to talk politics. Or if you have trouble reading people's emotions just skip it. Pretty much anybody with a graduate degree in a technology field would probably be happy to help you debug VPN issues if you're already friends with them. And some not so much security as general survival topics: 5) "Boo yow lah jhaow" = quit putting those fucking Sichuan peppers in every single thing I order (YMMV in different areas of the country, but here in Shenzhen even cabbage isn't complete unless it's fried with a generous handful of peppers and vegetable oil). (This will be completely ignored about 50% of the time, even if your pronunciation is correct.) 6) Baidu maps is pretty helpful if you want to show a cab driver your destination. They won't be able to interpret google maps. Older cab drivers won't be able to see the small characters on your screen, but if you take a screenshot then zoom in sometimes it works. Or just choose young cab drivers. 7) Wechat. Everybody has it. Even if you never try to pay for anything with it, you can quickly "friend" someone and even if neither of you are dual language you can long-press on messages and use the in-app translation to get a lot done. Just be careful to avoid idioms and slang, use simple sentences, write out pronouns instead of dropping them, etc.
• Cypher 8y ago
  Hmm alternatively you could take a break from things like Facebook and instagram and shit like that. Spend that time enjoying the culture :)
• amac 8y ago
  Wechat will be your friend.
• amac 8y ago
  Wechat is your friend.
• clubm8 8y ago
  They can't hack what you don't bring. Buy a cheap amazon fire tablet or chromebook for use on wifi / in flight entertainment.