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I'm not sure I understand what he's getting at. What does it mean to run "on top of" vs "in"? What's the problem in saying, "To run our app you need to have l

I'm not sure I understand what he's getting at. What does it mean to run "on top of" vs "in"? What's the problem in saying, "To run our app you need to have libraries X, Y, and Z installed"? Is it a big deal to pick a font rendering library and tell users they need it installed to run your app?

pjmlp 8y ago
It is when those users technical level is thinking that the browser logo is a synonym to turning Internet on, and call helpdesk when it isn't shown on the desktop.
- jlarocco 8y ago
  The subset of people who need the help desk to "find the internet", but also install their own software is pretty small, and if that's the target audience then the software developer should know that and install the prereqs automatically - either bundled with the app (best option) or by bootstrapping of the OS's built-in package manager (apt, emerge, etc.). People are generally more tech savvy than ever before, and we're past the point where developers needs to degrade the experience for everybody to target a small group of completely clueless end users.
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    That point of view is what makes regular consumers flock to Apple, Google and Microsoft platforms instead of GNU/Linux.
    - jlarocco 8y ago
      To be clear, I'm not trying to sell Linux, and I don't care whether people use it or not. In fact, if gaining users means dumbing things down then I'm happy they go elsewhere - it's probably best for everybody. I was specifically curious what the presenter meant between "run in" vs "run on top of". I've used Windows, OSX, and Linux, and I don't understand what he's getting at. Software runs "on top of" Linux just as much as it does on top of OSX and Windows.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
> What does it mean to run "on top of" vs "in"? What's the problem in saying, "To run our app you need to have libraries X, Y, and Z installed"? In short: DLL hell. Linux Desktop believes it has solved this problem through the use of an over-engineered and inflexible system called "package management" that fails as soon as you try to do something the distributor didn't intend, like install an up to date version of an application or, god help us, 2 different versions of the same one! Don't even think about installing an application to a different disk, that's madness. The cure is worse than the disease. To illustrate the difference in philosophy between "on top of" and "in", spend some time playing with older desktop OSs like MacOS System 7, or even DOS. Neither cares where an application is stored, even if it is on completely different media. "Installed" doesn't even really mean anything to them as far as applications are concerned.

pjmlp 8y ago

It is when those users technical level is thinking that the browser logo is a synonym to turning Internet on, and call helpdesk when it isn't shown on the desktop.

jlarocco 8y ago
The subset of people who need the help desk to "find the internet", but also install their own software is pretty small, and if that's the target audience then the software developer should know that and install the prereqs automatically - either bundled with the app (best option) or by bootstrapping of the OS's built-in package manager (apt, emerge, etc.). People are generally more tech savvy than ever before, and we're past the point where developers needs to degrade the experience for everybody to target a small group of completely clueless end users.
- pjmlp 8y ago
  That point of view is what makes regular consumers flock to Apple, Google and Microsoft platforms instead of GNU/Linux.
  - jlarocco 8y ago
    To be clear, I'm not trying to sell Linux, and I don't care whether people use it or not. In fact, if gaining users means dumbing things down then I'm happy they go elsewhere - it's probably best for everybody. I was specifically curious what the presenter meant between "run in" vs "run on top of". I've used Windows, OSX, and Linux, and I don't understand what he's getting at. Software runs "on top of" Linux just as much as it does on top of OSX and Windows.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago

> What does it mean to run "on top of" vs "in"? What's the problem in saying, "To run our app you need to have libraries X, Y, and Z installed"? In short: DLL hell. Linux Desktop believes it has solved this problem through the use of an over-engineered and inflexible system called "package management" that fails as soon as you try to do something the distributor didn't intend, like install an up to date version of an application or, god help us, 2 different versions of the same one! Don't even think about installing an application to a different disk, that's madness. The cure is worse than the disease. To illustrate the difference in philosophy between "on top of" and "in", spend some time playing with older desktop OSs like MacOS System 7, or even DOS. Neither cares where an application is stored, even if it is on completely different media. "Installed" doesn't even really mean anything to them as far as applications are concerned.