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No removable batteries, no expandable memory, no headphone jack and now the notch. All undeniable evidence on manufacturers copying(?) Apple's choices at least

by sh87 8y ago

No removable batteries, no expandable memory, no headphone jack and now the notch. All undeniable evidence on manufacturers copying(?) Apple's choices at least in phones. As a user, I strongly feel these are not in my best interests. And I realize I am not alone in this. Apple being the magnitude that it is now, cannot afford to make choices to attract folks like me with their 'reimagined' and 'breakthrough' innovations (?!). This opens up an interesting segment for products that can afford to make design choices/offerings orthogonal to Apple. Can you imagine a phone with 3000 mAh removable battery, an external memory card support for upto 128 Gb, a proper 3.5mm headphone jack and a proper rectangle screen capable of > 500ppi under 5 inches to fit your palm ? Let me sweeten the deal and price it at about $499 USD for this 'dated' tech. Now, look around and tell me there isn't a market for this phone.

brandonmenc 8y ago
> no expandable memory I always buy the max storage iPhone, and every time I fill up maybe a third of it - after years of use. The vast majority of people really don't care about this.
- rangibaby 8y ago
  It’s really easy to fill an iPhone up with photos and videos
  - krrrh 8y ago
    iCloud Photo Library dramatically changed the equation on this for most users. I test the iOS betas on an old 5S 16 GB, and it’s remarkable how much easier it is to use now than when it was new. Apple Music Library is the other big factor here for a lot of people.
- sh87 8y ago
  So you've now paid for more storage than you need. Upfront. You can't swap it and if the phone dies, you've probably lost everything or it's going to cost you dear to get that data out. Apple's solution is to go sync those gigs on Apple's cloud and keep paying a monthly fee for it. No thanks. I paid Apple for making choices for me and building products for my wants and needs. Now, its made for the 'vast majority'. I know more people like me and I see a niche market emerging that I hope someone addresses.
  - brandonmenc 8y ago
    > So you've now paid for more storage than you need. Upfront. It's like an extra $150. Stretched out over 24 monthly payments. Big whoop. > Apple's solution is to go sync those gigs on Apple's cloud and keep paying a monthly fee for it. This is exactly what I do. Totally worth it. > You can't swap it and if the phone dies, you've probably lost everything or it's going to cost you dear to get that data out. You can download and back up your cloud data onto physical drives. All of my photos and music are stored on multiple redundant drives. And because it's also on the cloud, when I get a new phone all of my data is available instantly. It's seamless. > I know more people like me and I see a niche market emerging that I hope someone addresses. I see commercials for Android phones with SD card slots, so it's already being addressed.
    - sh87 8y ago
      Did Apple have to kill the card slot to support iCloud ? No. Why then? Lock-in, that's why. Like someone else on this thread rightly said, Impracticality is the feature here and clearly intentional. Apple may have gained customers like yourself. They sure have lost customers like me.
      - danaris 8y ago
        Apple didn't "kill" anything. No iPhone has ever had an SD card slot. And to the best of my knowledge, the main reason wasn't lock-in or planned obsolescence: it was Steve Jobs' desire for as little as possible to get in the way of the aesthetic and design of the iPhone. Sure, you may find that to be a dumb reason, but it's a far cry from the cartoon villain a lot of people seem to enjoy making Apple out to be, rubbing its hands together with a cackling laugh as it sits on its mountain of money. (...Well, the mountain of money part is true, actually.)
- bjoli 8y ago
  I re-use the same SD card so my phones, so I don't pay extra for large storage.
sneak 8y ago
There isn’t a very large market for this phone.
dreamcompiler 8y ago
Add a metal back (not glass!), a matte screen, and an easily-rootable OS and I'll buy it yesterday.
- sh87 8y ago
  I will totally own that !
- CountSessine 8y ago
  A metal back will compromise radio reception.
  - acct1771 8y ago
    How did early smartphones use them..?
torgian 8y ago
They aren’t targeting people like you and me. They’re targeting the next generation who won’t grow up with repairable things, and China is their target market right now with several hundred more million people than the West. India manufacturers will be the next to look for, unless Apple changed gears.
foota 8y ago
Why would I want a rectangular screen for something that goes in my pocket? The removable batter and headphone jack might be nice, but as I understand it part of the reason these kinds of things have been removed is to make waterproofing easier, which is something I'd rather have.
- Larrikin 8y ago
  Sony had pretty much perfected the water proof phone with a headphone jack in their Z series, but for some reason decided to get rid of it with the latest revamp. This was also the first year since the release of the original Z where I didn't buy a Sony phone when I needed to upgrade.
- _emacsomancer_ 8y ago
  That's simply not true. My Samsung Galaxy S5 has a removable battery and headphone jack AND it's waterproof.
  - CountSessine 8y ago
    @foota says 'easier', not 'possible'. And the S6 doesn't have a removable battery, so what does that tell you about how Samsung felt about the engineering compromises they had to make with the S5 and all the rubber grommet-ing around its removable battery?
    - acct1771 8y ago
      Since Samsung is a corporation, it tells me that grommeting cost more than $0.
    - _emacsomancer_ 8y ago
      It's still pushing the "loss of features a,b... that are actually useful to users enables features x,y..." narrative, which is rather frustrating. The S5 isn't some marvel of modern engineering that is incredibly expensive to produce. > And the S6 doesn't have a removable battery, so what does that tell you about how Samsung felt about the engineering compromises they had to make with the S5 and all the rubber grommet-ing around its removable battery? And I haven't bought a Samsung (or other mobile phone) since the S5, so what does that tell you about the quality of the recent mobile phone offerings?
rdudek 8y ago
I just had Apple replace my battery on iPhone 6S Plus for $30. Took them roughly an hour to do so. Phone feels like new with this battery. So I think the new tech can be a pain in the ass for regular users to repair. Their authorized shops have all the tools to do so. I bet the unauthorized shops have all the same tools required too.
tzs 8y ago
> Can you imagine a phone with 3000 mAh removable battery If you are willing to make it a bit thicker than current phones...about 10% thicker than the original iPhone, you could use 5 NiMH AA batteries [1]. 3000 mAh is about what the iPhone XS Max has. If you can get by with around 1900 mAh (about what an iPhone 7 has) you could get that down to 3 AA batteries, or 7 AAAs. For people who are already using a lot of AA and AAA rechargeable batteries, this gives them a phone that easily fits right in, and as a bonus in an emergency you can use non-rechargeable batteries that you can buy from any convenience store. [1] 3000 mAh x 3.7 V = 11100 mWh. 11000 mWh / (2000 mAh x 1.1 V / NiMH AA) = 5 NiMH AA.
- jotm 8y ago
  NiMH can't withstand the power draw (especially the spikes), and can't keep providing the same voltage as it discharges. You'd need extra circuitry to be able to run a smartphone off of them.
tinus_hn 8y ago
Either it’s impossible to build or indeed there is no market for this. If there is, feel free to start selling these magical unicorn phones.
- everdrive 8y ago
  I hate the sentiment, but I think you're right. Modern technology is fashion, given that it's so widely adopted. Fashionable pants are intentionally expensive and impractical: this is an intentional feature.
greedo 8y ago
If there's a market, why isn't anyone addressing it? As geeks, we love the idea of upgrading and repairing computer hardware, but the majority of the market HATES it. They just want something that works. So much of the desire by geeks for removable batteries reminds me of someone wanting an engine crank (like on the Model T) in case the starter fails...
CountSessine 8y ago
I don't know how many registered users there are on HN, but I seem to recall my user number was about 1000. Maybe there are about 3000 on the site now? I don't think you could break even with those numbers. So, no. There is no market for this phone.

by sh87 8y ago

brandonmenc 8y ago

> no expandable memory I always buy the max storage iPhone, and every time I fill up maybe a third of it - after years of use. The vast majority of people really don't care about this.

rangibaby 8y ago
It’s really easy to fill an iPhone up with photos and videos
- krrrh 8y ago
  iCloud Photo Library dramatically changed the equation on this for most users. I test the iOS betas on an old 5S 16 GB, and it’s remarkable how much easier it is to use now than when it was new. Apple Music Library is the other big factor here for a lot of people.
sh87 8y ago
So you've now paid for more storage than you need. Upfront. You can't swap it and if the phone dies, you've probably lost everything or it's going to cost you dear to get that data out. Apple's solution is to go sync those gigs on Apple's cloud and keep paying a monthly fee for it. No thanks. I paid Apple for making choices for me and building products for my wants and needs. Now, its made for the 'vast majority'. I know more people like me and I see a niche market emerging that I hope someone addresses.
- brandonmenc 8y ago
  > So you've now paid for more storage than you need. Upfront. It's like an extra $150. Stretched out over 24 monthly payments. Big whoop. > Apple's solution is to go sync those gigs on Apple's cloud and keep paying a monthly fee for it. This is exactly what I do. Totally worth it. > You can't swap it and if the phone dies, you've probably lost everything or it's going to cost you dear to get that data out. You can download and back up your cloud data onto physical drives. All of my photos and music are stored on multiple redundant drives. And because it's also on the cloud, when I get a new phone all of my data is available instantly. It's seamless. > I know more people like me and I see a niche market emerging that I hope someone addresses. I see commercials for Android phones with SD card slots, so it's already being addressed.
  - sh87 8y ago
    Did Apple have to kill the card slot to support iCloud ? No. Why then? Lock-in, that's why. Like someone else on this thread rightly said, Impracticality is the feature here and clearly intentional. Apple may have gained customers like yourself. They sure have lost customers like me.
    - danaris 8y ago
      Apple didn't "kill" anything. No iPhone has ever had an SD card slot. And to the best of my knowledge, the main reason wasn't lock-in or planned obsolescence: it was Steve Jobs' desire for as little as possible to get in the way of the aesthetic and design of the iPhone. Sure, you may find that to be a dumb reason, but it's a far cry from the cartoon villain a lot of people seem to enjoy making Apple out to be, rubbing its hands together with a cackling laugh as it sits on its mountain of money. (...Well, the mountain of money part is true, actually.)
bjoli 8y ago
I re-use the same SD card so my phones, so I don't pay extra for large storage.

sneak 8y ago

There isn’t a very large market for this phone.

dreamcompiler 8y ago

Add a metal back (not glass!), a matte screen, and an easily-rootable OS and I'll buy it yesterday.

sh87 8y ago
I will totally own that !
CountSessine 8y ago
A metal back will compromise radio reception.
- acct1771 8y ago
  How did early smartphones use them..?

torgian 8y ago

They aren’t targeting people like you and me. They’re targeting the next generation who won’t grow up with repairable things, and China is their target market right now with several hundred more million people than the West. India manufacturers will be the next to look for, unless Apple changed gears.

foota 8y ago

Why would I want a rectangular screen for something that goes in my pocket? The removable batter and headphone jack might be nice, but as I understand it part of the reason these kinds of things have been removed is to make waterproofing easier, which is something I'd rather have.

Larrikin 8y ago
Sony had pretty much perfected the water proof phone with a headphone jack in their Z series, but for some reason decided to get rid of it with the latest revamp. This was also the first year since the release of the original Z where I didn't buy a Sony phone when I needed to upgrade.
_emacsomancer_ 8y ago
That's simply not true. My Samsung Galaxy S5 has a removable battery and headphone jack AND it's waterproof.
- CountSessine 8y ago
  @foota says 'easier', not 'possible'. And the S6 doesn't have a removable battery, so what does that tell you about how Samsung felt about the engineering compromises they had to make with the S5 and all the rubber grommet-ing around its removable battery?
  - acct1771 8y ago
    Since Samsung is a corporation, it tells me that grommeting cost more than $0.
  - _emacsomancer_ 8y ago
    It's still pushing the "loss of features a,b... that are actually useful to users enables features x,y..." narrative, which is rather frustrating. The S5 isn't some marvel of modern engineering that is incredibly expensive to produce. > And the S6 doesn't have a removable battery, so what does that tell you about how Samsung felt about the engineering compromises they had to make with the S5 and all the rubber grommet-ing around its removable battery? And I haven't bought a Samsung (or other mobile phone) since the S5, so what does that tell you about the quality of the recent mobile phone offerings?

rdudek 8y ago

I just had Apple replace my battery on iPhone 6S Plus for $30. Took them roughly an hour to do so. Phone feels like new with this battery. So I think the new tech can be a pain in the ass for regular users to repair. Their authorized shops have all the tools to do so. I bet the unauthorized shops have all the same tools required too.

tzs 8y ago

> Can you imagine a phone with 3000 mAh removable battery If you are willing to make it a bit thicker than current phones...about 10% thicker than the original iPhone, you could use 5 NiMH AA batteries [1]. 3000 mAh is about what the iPhone XS Max has. If you can get by with around 1900 mAh (about what an iPhone 7 has) you could get that down to 3 AA batteries, or 7 AAAs. For people who are already using a lot of AA and AAA rechargeable batteries, this gives them a phone that easily fits right in, and as a bonus in an emergency you can use non-rechargeable batteries that you can buy from any convenience store. [1] 3000 mAh x 3.7 V = 11100 mWh. 11000 mWh / (2000 mAh x 1.1 V / NiMH AA) = 5 NiMH AA.

jotm 8y ago
NiMH can't withstand the power draw (especially the spikes), and can't keep providing the same voltage as it discharges. You'd need extra circuitry to be able to run a smartphone off of them.

tinus_hn 8y ago

Either it’s impossible to build or indeed there is no market for this. If there is, feel free to start selling these magical unicorn phones.

everdrive 8y ago
I hate the sentiment, but I think you're right. Modern technology is fashion, given that it's so widely adopted. Fashionable pants are intentionally expensive and impractical: this is an intentional feature.

greedo 8y ago

If there's a market, why isn't anyone addressing it? As geeks, we love the idea of upgrading and repairing computer hardware, but the majority of the market HATES it. They just want something that works. So much of the desire by geeks for removable batteries reminds me of someone wanting an engine crank (like on the Model T) in case the starter fails...

CountSessine 8y ago

I don't know how many registered users there are on HN, but I seem to recall my user number was about 1000. Maybe there are about 3000 on the site now? I don't think you could break even with those numbers. So, no. There is no market for this phone.