4 ms·

I dunno... It took me all of 15 minutes to get TX license and voter registration (too bad they do not share it across the board, and I am getting bombarded with

by Fins 8y ago

I dunno... It took me all of 15 minutes to get TX license and voter registration (too bad they do not share it across the board, and I am getting bombarded with all those fake "surveys" about yet another stupid California proposition XYZ). Granted, it was in a more civilized part of TX, but is there really an actual problem with registering to vote? And did anyone look at TX code to check that submissions from a third party rather than the actual applicant are valid?

SamWhited 8y ago
It's well-known that younger generations tend to put off or not do things if they can't do it online. Also, not everyone has access to the same resources you do. If you work 60 hours a week and don't have a car and it takes you an hour by 3 buses to get o the nearest library or DMV, it's going to be hard to get registered. Maybe you don't even have a drivers license and can't get one. Maybe you don't know your social security number and haven't been able to get access too it. There are any number of things that make this hard, just because you're privileged enough not to have to deal with them doesn't mean everyone else is.
- justtopost 8y ago
  I am all for voter turnout, but chalking it up to millenials being too lazy to register is pretty lame.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - SamWhited 8y ago
    No one actually did this, you're focusing on the first sentence of a longer reply. It doesn't "chaulk it up" to that at all.
- Fins 8y ago
  But of course you don't have to go to DMV (or rather DPS, in Texas). If you can go to vote.org you surely can go to https://webservices.sos.state.tx.us/vrapp/index.asp https://webservices.sos.state.tx.us/vrapp/index.asp and have it generate an official application form with your information that you sign and mail. Even when I was going to school, and working two jobs, I could drop off an envelope in a mailbox. Somebody who finds this to be too much effort probably should not be voting in the first place.
  - SamWhited 8y ago
    The point is that it's not about effort; it's about resources and the fact that you can't anticipate what is easy or not for other people. The easier we can make this the better. If you can't afford a printer, or are bedridden and can't get out easily, it's probably nice that someone will mail you a pre-filled out form. There are plenty of reasons why someone might have trouble with the existing mechanisms of getting registered, be it due to financial circumstance, physical ailments, or some other reason. It doesn't really matter why, it just matters that we make it easier for those less fortunate than us to register.
    - Fins 8y ago
      I'm all for making it easy. Why couldn't Vote.org just do what the official site does, but add the function of printing it out on their end and mailing the pre-filled form to the voter. Maybe even with a stamped envelope included?
      - SamWhited 8y ago
        There are other places that do that; they just took an alternative approach that also appeared to be legal under Texas law, which seems perfectly reasonable.
        Fins 8y ago
        Well, obviously somebody in Texas disagrees, and from my layman's cursory reading of the law, I don't think Vote.org is unquestionably right. They might be, but I would not be claiming "voter suppression" right away.
SwellJoe 8y ago
While it's nice that states have voter registration when you get or renew a drivers license (the motor voter bill passed at the federal level under Clinton, so, the state is required to offer it), not everyone will have a drivers license. Many consider requiring a drivers license or ID an effective poll tax, since it costs money to maintain, and also can be very difficult to obtain for those without a permanent residence. "And did anyone look at TX code to check that submissions from a third party rather than the actual applicant are valid?" Of course. There's a whole system in place for it. Anyone meeting a few basic requirements can become a volunteer deputy registrar (https://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/pamphlets/deputy.shtml https://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/pamphlets/deputy.shtml). It is not uncommon or new. It's been going on for decades.
- Fins 8y ago
  Of course you could just register to vote by itself. So while I would not put some nefarious motives past people who elect Ted Cruz, this particular instance seems less about voter suppression, and more about millenials wailing that they have to lift their behinds from their comfy chairs . And to be more cynical about it, if someone can't be bothered to mail the application (that you can generate on the same TX Secretary of State site just as well as on Vote.org) then i am not sure I want them voting. I would assume that Vote.org also is a person (which the deputy registrar statute seems to require) and they have been appointed such for every county in Texas, as it also seems to require.
  - SwellJoe 8y ago
    "Of course you could just register to vote by itself." Though without an ID, you still can't vote in Texas. I don't believe voter suppression (and that's what all of this is) or gerrymandering is compatible with a functioning democracy. The harder it is to register and to vote, and the less your vote counts because of systemic manipulations, the fewer people will vote...not for lack of desire or right to vote. It always costs time to vote, and some folks don't have a lot of time to spare, due to work, or because they are caregivers for children or older family members, or because they have limited transportation options, etc., and in the end they often feel their vote won't count for anything (and, in Texas, they'd historically be right...we have among the most gerrymandering districts in the country, and we have among the strictest and most onerous voting laws). "I would assume that Vote.org also is a person (which the deputy registrar statute seems to require) and they have been appointed such for every county in Texas, as it also seems to require." Did you read the article, even a little bit? They discuss the fact that legal counsel was involved from the beginning of the process, discussions were had with the relevant counties, etc. They did everything by the book. The state just changed the rules afterward.

by Fins 8y ago

SamWhited 8y ago

It's well-known that younger generations tend to put off or not do things if they can't do it online. Also, not everyone has access to the same resources you do. If you work 60 hours a week and don't have a car and it takes you an hour by 3 buses to get o the nearest library or DMV, it's going to be hard to get registered. Maybe you don't even have a drivers license and can't get one. Maybe you don't know your social security number and haven't been able to get access too it. There are any number of things that make this hard, just because you're privileged enough not to have to deal with them doesn't mean everyone else is.

justtopost 8y ago
I am all for voter turnout, but chalking it up to millenials being too lazy to register is pretty lame.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- SamWhited 8y ago
  No one actually did this, you're focusing on the first sentence of a longer reply. It doesn't "chaulk it up" to that at all.
Fins 8y ago
But of course you don't have to go to DMV (or rather DPS, in Texas). If you can go to vote.org you surely can go to https://webservices.sos.state.tx.us/vrapp/index.asp https://webservices.sos.state.tx.us/vrapp/index.asp and have it generate an official application form with your information that you sign and mail. Even when I was going to school, and working two jobs, I could drop off an envelope in a mailbox. Somebody who finds this to be too much effort probably should not be voting in the first place.
- SamWhited 8y ago
  The point is that it's not about effort; it's about resources and the fact that you can't anticipate what is easy or not for other people. The easier we can make this the better. If you can't afford a printer, or are bedridden and can't get out easily, it's probably nice that someone will mail you a pre-filled out form. There are plenty of reasons why someone might have trouble with the existing mechanisms of getting registered, be it due to financial circumstance, physical ailments, or some other reason. It doesn't really matter why, it just matters that we make it easier for those less fortunate than us to register.
  - Fins 8y ago
    I'm all for making it easy. Why couldn't Vote.org just do what the official site does, but add the function of printing it out on their end and mailing the pre-filled form to the voter. Maybe even with a stamped envelope included?
    - SamWhited 8y ago
      There are other places that do that; they just took an alternative approach that also appeared to be legal under Texas law, which seems perfectly reasonable.
      - Fins 8y ago
        Well, obviously somebody in Texas disagrees, and from my layman's cursory reading of the law, I don't think Vote.org is unquestionably right. They might be, but I would not be claiming "voter suppression" right away.

SwellJoe 8y ago

While it's nice that states have voter registration when you get or renew a drivers license (the motor voter bill passed at the federal level under Clinton, so, the state is required to offer it), not everyone will have a drivers license. Many consider requiring a drivers license or ID an effective poll tax, since it costs money to maintain, and also can be very difficult to obtain for those without a permanent residence. "And did anyone look at TX code to check that submissions from a third party rather than the actual applicant are valid?" Of course. There's a whole system in place for it. Anyone meeting a few basic requirements can become a volunteer deputy registrar (https://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/pamphlets/deputy.shtml https://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/pamphlets/deputy.shtml). It is not uncommon or new. It's been going on for decades.

Fins 8y ago
Of course you could just register to vote by itself. So while I would not put some nefarious motives past people who elect Ted Cruz, this particular instance seems less about voter suppression, and more about millenials wailing that they have to lift their behinds from their comfy chairs . And to be more cynical about it, if someone can't be bothered to mail the application (that you can generate on the same TX Secretary of State site just as well as on Vote.org) then i am not sure I want them voting. I would assume that Vote.org also is a person (which the deputy registrar statute seems to require) and they have been appointed such for every county in Texas, as it also seems to require.
- SwellJoe 8y ago
  "Of course you could just register to vote by itself." Though without an ID, you still can't vote in Texas. I don't believe voter suppression (and that's what all of this is) or gerrymandering is compatible with a functioning democracy. The harder it is to register and to vote, and the less your vote counts because of systemic manipulations, the fewer people will vote...not for lack of desire or right to vote. It always costs time to vote, and some folks don't have a lot of time to spare, due to work, or because they are caregivers for children or older family members, or because they have limited transportation options, etc., and in the end they often feel their vote won't count for anything (and, in Texas, they'd historically be right...we have among the most gerrymandering districts in the country, and we have among the strictest and most onerous voting laws). "I would assume that Vote.org also is a person (which the deputy registrar statute seems to require) and they have been appointed such for every county in Texas, as it also seems to require." Did you read the article, even a little bit? They discuss the fact that legal counsel was involved from the beginning of the process, discussions were had with the relevant counties, etc. They did everything by the book. The state just changed the rules afterward.