3 ms·

You don't have to read moral judgement into apo's comment, and if you don't one problem comes into focus: it's well good to listen support a person unconditiona

by DenisM 8y ago

You don't have to read moral judgement into apo's comment, and if you don't one problem comes into focus: it's well good to listen support a person unconditionally in their difficulties, but some the sufferers need to change their behavior and you can't effect that through nodding and bringing in comfort food. If you want a person to change you have to tell them something they don't want to her. At what point do switch from one to another?

warent 8y ago
Ultimately it doesn't matter how much we want another person to change. Things will only affect change when people are ready and willing. When that happens, it will be pretty obvious, especially if you're someone they trust. At that point it does make sense to make the switch to being forthcoming and honest as you mentioned. In the mean time? Don't enable, but don't be direct in telling them what they aren't ready to hear either. Of course, be empathetic and gentle, offer guidance and help along the way but provide no unsolicited advice. Unless you're a therapist, you should either change the topic or don't associate with them at all, or else you risk making matters worse and deepening the problem. Disclaimer: I'm not professional in the matter, this has just been my personal approach in life that's worked well so far.
- jacobolus 8y ago
  > either change the topic or don't associate with them at all [...] this has just been my personal approach in life that's worked well so far. This may work out for you, but it’s hard to judge how well it works out for the people you decide to stop associating with (especially in comparison to some counterfactual other approach), since presumably you don’t get much follow-up information about the outcome.
- DenisM 8y ago
  > Things will only affect change when people are ready and willing I find this unsatisfactory. There is a period in a persons life where they will not listen to advice, then when they might be suggestible, and finally when they will act even on their own accord. If we pretend that the second period is non-existent we can sleep well because nothing can be done and so nothing should be done. But the logical me rebels against this notion - there has to be a transitionary period. Perhaps by pushing someone over the edge during that time I will save them years of wallowing in the tar pit of indecision.
nitrogen 8y ago
If you want a person to change you have to tell them something they don't want to [hear]. Instead of telling, try teaching. Show by example, ideally not in heated moments when people will reject the advice, a better way to handle resources or stress or confrontations or whatever.
- neom 8y ago
  Couple that with lifting people up, showing them their worth, purpose, giving them meaning. Then real change happens. I was 300lbs and no advice under the sun could have brought me to and allowed me to maintain my current healthy weight, it was only through real love did that happen.
- DenisM 8y ago
  An astute observation. Another thing I found that works is to show by several examples, by many people (preferably friends). The lizard brain is receptive to social proof.

by DenisM 8y ago

warent 8y ago

Ultimately it doesn't matter how much we want another person to change. Things will only affect change when people are ready and willing. When that happens, it will be pretty obvious, especially if you're someone they trust. At that point it does make sense to make the switch to being forthcoming and honest as you mentioned. In the mean time? Don't enable, but don't be direct in telling them what they aren't ready to hear either. Of course, be empathetic and gentle, offer guidance and help along the way but provide no unsolicited advice. Unless you're a therapist, you should either change the topic or don't associate with them at all, or else you risk making matters worse and deepening the problem. Disclaimer: I'm not professional in the matter, this has just been my personal approach in life that's worked well so far.

jacobolus 8y ago
> either change the topic or don't associate with them at all [...] this has just been my personal approach in life that's worked well so far. This may work out for you, but it’s hard to judge how well it works out for the people you decide to stop associating with (especially in comparison to some counterfactual other approach), since presumably you don’t get much follow-up information about the outcome.
DenisM 8y ago
> Things will only affect change when people are ready and willing I find this unsatisfactory. There is a period in a persons life where they will not listen to advice, then when they might be suggestible, and finally when they will act even on their own accord. If we pretend that the second period is non-existent we can sleep well because nothing can be done and so nothing should be done. But the logical me rebels against this notion - there has to be a transitionary period. Perhaps by pushing someone over the edge during that time I will save them years of wallowing in the tar pit of indecision.

nitrogen 8y ago

If you want a person to change you have to tell them something they don't want to [hear]. Instead of telling, try teaching. Show by example, ideally not in heated moments when people will reject the advice, a better way to handle resources or stress or confrontations or whatever.

neom 8y ago
Couple that with lifting people up, showing them their worth, purpose, giving them meaning. Then real change happens. I was 300lbs and no advice under the sun could have brought me to and allowed me to maintain my current healthy weight, it was only through real love did that happen.
DenisM 8y ago
An astute observation. Another thing I found that works is to show by several examples, by many people (preferably friends). The lizard brain is receptive to social proof.