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Whether you’ve enjoyed working at some place is not relevant. The point is that if you base a decision on aspects of a job you can’t enforce, then what you enjo

by mlthoughts2018 8y ago

Whether you’ve enjoyed working at some place is not relevant. The point is that if you base a decision on aspects of a job you can’t enforce, then what you enjoy about it can change on the whim of some other people, no matter what they verbally promise or reassure you about. It is much harder to do the same thing with stated compensation or certain other benefits. I’ve had jobs I really enjoyed, then a manager quit unexpectedly and the replacement made the job horrible. I’ve enjoyed perks like working from home, then the CTO changed and disallowed all remote work. I’ve enjoyed a quiet and private office, then HR decided to rebrand us as a hip cargo-cult startup and suddenly I had to do my job embedded in a never ending stream of audio disruptions that headphones can’t mitigate. If you’ve only had generally pleasant job experiences, then from everyone else’s point of view, your approach is so clouded by insane selection bias due to the absurd rarity of that experience that effectively your perspective has to be ignored for practical decision making. I also strongly dispute the idea that any part of what I wrote is negativity, not at all. It’s not cynical, not hyperbolic, not an over-generalization. It is a perfectly neutral perspective that accounts for the necessary degree of caution and skepticism you have to have when dealing with an entity (a corporation) that is essentially a legalized sociopath.

deleted 8y ago
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sonnyblarney 8y ago
"Whether you’ve enjoyed working at some place is not relevant." It's very relevant. "The point is that if you base a decision on aspects of a job you can’t enforce, then what you enjoy about it can change on the whim of some other people, " This is called life; you don't control the Universe. I suggest this has nothing to do with employment, or GlassDoor reviews, and more of a borderline nihilist take on life in general. About 90% of Americans enjoy their work on some level [1], and about 50% are 'very satisfied' (58% for folks with Uni), and though most of us would probably quit and sunbathe or golf all day, we don't have that option and so we work together to make a better future for ourselves, our children and our communities. We all like to gripe, and even in the most perfect circumstances we'll have a tendency to externalize most of our unhappiness and attribute it to other things. 'The system' is pretty good, better than it's ever been, even massively better than it was maybe only three generations ago when most of us were on farms, mines or factories. It's always healthy to be skeptical and realistic about companies goals. "If you’ve only had generally pleasant job experiences, then from everyone else’s point of view, your approach is so clouded by insane selection bias" Given that the vast majority of folks are generally satisfied with their jobs, you might be the one with the 'perspective bias' due to perhaps a bad experience or two, because again - 90% of people are generally satisfied with their jobs, I'll gather you might personally have been somewhere in that 10%, and that the commenter's experience is more normative. [1] https://trends.collegeboard.org/education-pays/figures-tables/job-satisfaction-education-level-2008 https://trends.collegeboard.org/education-pays/figures-table...
- mlthoughts2018 8y ago
  > “It's very relevant.” No, it is not relevant. > “This is called life; you don't control the Universe.” This too is not relevant. > “About 90% of Americans enjoy their work on some level [1], and about 50% are 'very satisfied' (58% for folks with Uni)” This is not compatible with either common sense observation nor other hard data such as [1] - [5] below. I utterly do not believe 90% of Americans enjoy their work on some level, even after reading the citation you gave and reflecting on it. That just doesn’t comport with vast other data on the topic. > “'The system' is pretty good, better than it's ever been, even massively better than it was maybe only three generations ago when most of us were on farms, mines or factories.” This also seems irrelevant. Just because a very bad thing is perhaps better than it used to be doesn’t make it good, neutral or undeserving of focused skepticism. > “Given that the vast majority of folks are generally satisfied with their jobs” They aren’t, and this point invalidates your perspective in your reply as far as I can tell. [1]: https://news.gallup.com/poll/165269/worldwide-employees-engaged-work.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/165269/worldwide-employees-enga... [2]: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-21/people-start-hating-their-jobs-at-age-35 https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-21/people-st... [3]: https://www.fool.com/careers/2017/06/12/hate-your-job-clearly-youre-not-alone.aspx https://www.fool.com/careers/2017/06/12/hate-your-job-clearl... [4]: https://qz.com/375353/half-of-us-workers-have-left-a-job-because-they-hated-their-boss/ https://qz.com/375353/half-of-us-workers-have-left-a-job-bec... [5]: http://scienceblogs.com/retrospectacle/2007/04/19/americans-hate-their-jobs-more/ http://scienceblogs.com/retrospectacle/2007/04/19/americans-... The summary among all these is that somewhere between 50% and 85% of Americans “hate their jobs” and only around 13% of employees are engaged in their work (not mentally checked out). Given the breadth and consistently large effect sizes seen in the numbers reporting they hate their jobs, I simply do not believe the lone YouGov survey with contradictory results has an appropriate methodology.
  - sonnyblarney 8y ago
    Your literally arguing that 'Whether you’ve enjoyed working at some place is not relevant' ... and then you provide a bunch of data points to try to prove 'job happiness' one way or the other, as though it's relevant? You arguing the sky is blue, and then not blue in the next sentence? Which is it? ... "The summary among all these is that somewhere between 50% and 85% of Americans “hate their jobs” and only around 13% of employees are engaged in their work (not mentally checked out)." This is absolutely false and there is no reading of those five references (3 of which are irrelevant) which indicates this. The data I provided is more nuanced and reveals that even among the 50% that are 'not satisfied' when given an either or choice, most even those are still at least 'somewhat satisfied'. 'Perfect job satisfaction' was never the objective. Less than 10% 'hate their jobs'. ... (People happy at work) "This is not compatible with either common sense observation nor other hard data such as" It is common sense to anyone who's paying attention. Most people are ok with their jobs, and most of the rest are somewhat satisfied - as the data shows. If you need a house, either you work->get money->pay to have it built - or you build it yourself. Clearly, most of us would prefer to be on the beach than do 'work' ... but if you want a house, you have to do 'work' one way or another, most people understand that reality and are fine with it. ... "I also strongly dispute the idea that any part of what I wrote is negativity, not at all. It’s not cynical, not hyperbolic, not an over-generalization. It is a perfectly neutral" Because your position is based on bad facts it is effectively hyperbolic and nihilist.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

sonnyblarney 8y ago

"Whether you’ve enjoyed working at some place is not relevant." It's very relevant. "The point is that if you base a decision on aspects of a job you can’t enforce, then what you enjoy about it can change on the whim of some other people, " This is called life; you don't control the Universe. I suggest this has nothing to do with employment, or GlassDoor reviews, and more of a borderline nihilist take on life in general. About 90% of Americans enjoy their work on some level [1], and about 50% are 'very satisfied' (58% for folks with Uni), and though most of us would probably quit and sunbathe or golf all day, we don't have that option and so we work together to make a better future for ourselves, our children and our communities. We all like to gripe, and even in the most perfect circumstances we'll have a tendency to externalize most of our unhappiness and attribute it to other things. 'The system' is pretty good, better than it's ever been, even massively better than it was maybe only three generations ago when most of us were on farms, mines or factories. It's always healthy to be skeptical and realistic about companies goals. "If you’ve only had generally pleasant job experiences, then from everyone else’s point of view, your approach is so clouded by insane selection bias" Given that the vast majority of folks are generally satisfied with their jobs, you might be the one with the 'perspective bias' due to perhaps a bad experience or two, because again - 90% of people are generally satisfied with their jobs, I'll gather you might personally have been somewhere in that 10%, and that the commenter's experience is more normative. [1] https://trends.collegeboard.org/education-pays/figures-tables/job-satisfaction-education-level-2008 https://trends.collegeboard.org/education-pays/figures-table...

mlthoughts2018 8y ago
> “It's very relevant.” No, it is not relevant. > “This is called life; you don't control the Universe.” This too is not relevant. > “About 90% of Americans enjoy their work on some level [1], and about 50% are 'very satisfied' (58% for folks with Uni)” This is not compatible with either common sense observation nor other hard data such as [1] - [5] below. I utterly do not believe 90% of Americans enjoy their work on some level, even after reading the citation you gave and reflecting on it. That just doesn’t comport with vast other data on the topic. > “'The system' is pretty good, better than it's ever been, even massively better than it was maybe only three generations ago when most of us were on farms, mines or factories.” This also seems irrelevant. Just because a very bad thing is perhaps better than it used to be doesn’t make it good, neutral or undeserving of focused skepticism. > “Given that the vast majority of folks are generally satisfied with their jobs” They aren’t, and this point invalidates your perspective in your reply as far as I can tell. [1]: https://news.gallup.com/poll/165269/worldwide-employees-engaged-work.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/165269/worldwide-employees-enga... [2]: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-21/people-start-hating-their-jobs-at-age-35 https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-21/people-st... [3]: https://www.fool.com/careers/2017/06/12/hate-your-job-clearly-youre-not-alone.aspx https://www.fool.com/careers/2017/06/12/hate-your-job-clearl... [4]: https://qz.com/375353/half-of-us-workers-have-left-a-job-because-they-hated-their-boss/ https://qz.com/375353/half-of-us-workers-have-left-a-job-bec... [5]: http://scienceblogs.com/retrospectacle/2007/04/19/americans-hate-their-jobs-more/ http://scienceblogs.com/retrospectacle/2007/04/19/americans-... The summary among all these is that somewhere between 50% and 85% of Americans “hate their jobs” and only around 13% of employees are engaged in their work (not mentally checked out). Given the breadth and consistently large effect sizes seen in the numbers reporting they hate their jobs, I simply do not believe the lone YouGov survey with contradictory results has an appropriate methodology.
- sonnyblarney 8y ago
  Your literally arguing that 'Whether you’ve enjoyed working at some place is not relevant' ... and then you provide a bunch of data points to try to prove 'job happiness' one way or the other, as though it's relevant? You arguing the sky is blue, and then not blue in the next sentence? Which is it? ... "The summary among all these is that somewhere between 50% and 85% of Americans “hate their jobs” and only around 13% of employees are engaged in their work (not mentally checked out)." This is absolutely false and there is no reading of those five references (3 of which are irrelevant) which indicates this. The data I provided is more nuanced and reveals that even among the 50% that are 'not satisfied' when given an either or choice, most even those are still at least 'somewhat satisfied'. 'Perfect job satisfaction' was never the objective. Less than 10% 'hate their jobs'. ... (People happy at work) "This is not compatible with either common sense observation nor other hard data such as" It is common sense to anyone who's paying attention. Most people are ok with their jobs, and most of the rest are somewhat satisfied - as the data shows. If you need a house, either you work->get money->pay to have it built - or you build it yourself. Clearly, most of us would prefer to be on the beach than do 'work' ... but if you want a house, you have to do 'work' one way or another, most people understand that reality and are fine with it. ... "I also strongly dispute the idea that any part of what I wrote is negativity, not at all. It’s not cynical, not hyperbolic, not an over-generalization. It is a perfectly neutral" Because your position is based on bad facts it is effectively hyperbolic and nihilist.