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I generally operate on the heuristic that negative reviews (if well written) are accurate while positive reviews are never accurate. Modern companies cannot “b

by mlthoughts2018 8y ago

I generally operate on the heuristic that negative reviews (if well written) are accurate while positive reviews are never accurate. Modern companies cannot “be good” in any ways other than high compensation, consistently high end benefits, and retraining people instead of firing them. Any other description of a good attribute must be ignored. Even if it’s accurate, the company has no obligation to keep it that way, you don’t know the deep political story about it, these are rarely promises anyone can enforce. Most companies are wildly horrible places to work, in ways that have been studied and documented since Moral Mazes. This is why it’s imperative to negotiate very uncompromisingly on things like salary, bonuses, and severance agreements, no matter how much people pressure you to believe you can’t negotiate them. To win a job negotiation you simply have to not want what the other person is offering, and the reason is simple: every job that anyone ever tries to sell you on, for all time, is a total lemon, and ought to require exactly what you want to be paid to do that job. Any time you walk away from a job, you’re making the right choice, because avoidance of the cognitive and behavoral dysfunction that any organization will beat you with (emphatically not hyperbole) is better for you in the long run. The only reasonable exception is when you’re truly desperate because of some resource depletion, like you’ve been unemployed and have no choice but to compromise. Obviously you can compromise on other dimensions if you just happen to want to, but from the point of view of the business transaction that is a job, the only practically enforceable parts are stated compensation and benefits you can get in writing. The earlier you realize you must look at all forms of employment this way, the better off you’ll be.

therealdrag0 8y ago
I've worked at three companies and enjoyed them all. Your negativity can be true, but I don't think it's always true. It could be that it's impossible for any one company to be all things to all people. Individuals have different tastes and compatibilities.
- mlthoughts2018 8y ago
  Whether you’ve enjoyed working at some place is not relevant. The point is that if you base a decision on aspects of a job you can’t enforce, then what you enjoy about it can change on the whim of some other people, no matter what they verbally promise or reassure you about. It is much harder to do the same thing with stated compensation or certain other benefits. I’ve had jobs I really enjoyed, then a manager quit unexpectedly and the replacement made the job horrible. I’ve enjoyed perks like working from home, then the CTO changed and disallowed all remote work. I’ve enjoyed a quiet and private office, then HR decided to rebrand us as a hip cargo-cult startup and suddenly I had to do my job embedded in a never ending stream of audio disruptions that headphones can’t mitigate. If you’ve only had generally pleasant job experiences, then from everyone else’s point of view, your approach is so clouded by insane selection bias due to the absurd rarity of that experience that effectively your perspective has to be ignored for practical decision making. I also strongly dispute the idea that any part of what I wrote is negativity, not at all. It’s not cynical, not hyperbolic, not an over-generalization. It is a perfectly neutral perspective that accounts for the necessary degree of caution and skepticism you have to have when dealing with an entity (a corporation) that is essentially a legalized sociopath.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - sonnyblarney 8y ago
    "Whether you’ve enjoyed working at some place is not relevant." It's very relevant. "The point is that if you base a decision on aspects of a job you can’t enforce, then what you enjoy about it can change on the whim of some other people, " This is called life; you don't control the Universe. I suggest this has nothing to do with employment, or GlassDoor reviews, and more of a borderline nihilist take on life in general. About 90% of Americans enjoy their work on some level [1], and about 50% are 'very satisfied' (58% for folks with Uni), and though most of us would probably quit and sunbathe or golf all day, we don't have that option and so we work together to make a better future for ourselves, our children and our communities. We all like to gripe, and even in the most perfect circumstances we'll have a tendency to externalize most of our unhappiness and attribute it to other things. 'The system' is pretty good, better than it's ever been, even massively better than it was maybe only three generations ago when most of us were on farms, mines or factories. It's always healthy to be skeptical and realistic about companies goals. "If you’ve only had generally pleasant job experiences, then from everyone else’s point of view, your approach is so clouded by insane selection bias" Given that the vast majority of folks are generally satisfied with their jobs, you might be the one with the 'perspective bias' due to perhaps a bad experience or two, because again - 90% of people are generally satisfied with their jobs, I'll gather you might personally have been somewhere in that 10%, and that the commenter's experience is more normative. [1] https://trends.collegeboard.org/education-pays/figures-tables/job-satisfaction-education-level-2008 https://trends.collegeboard.org/education-pays/figures-table...
    - mlthoughts2018 8y ago
      > “It's very relevant.” No, it is not relevant. > “This is called life; you don't control the Universe.” This too is not relevant. > “About 90% of Americans enjoy their work on some level [1], and about 50% are 'very satisfied' (58% for folks with Uni)” This is not compatible with either common sense observation nor other hard data such as [1] - [5] below. I utterly do not believe 90% of Americans enjoy their work on some level, even after reading the citation you gave and reflecting on it. That just doesn’t comport with vast other data on the topic. > “'The system' is pretty good, better than it's ever been, even massively better than it was maybe only three generations ago when most of us were on farms, mines or factories.” This also seems irrelevant. Just because a very bad thing is perhaps better than it used to be doesn’t make it good, neutral or undeserving of focused skepticism. > “Given that the vast majority of folks are generally satisfied with their jobs” They aren’t, and this point invalidates your perspective in your reply as far as I can tell. [1]: https://news.gallup.com/poll/165269/worldwide-employees-engaged-work.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/165269/worldwide-employees-enga... [2]: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-21/people-start-hating-their-jobs-at-age-35 https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-21/people-st... [3]: https://www.fool.com/careers/2017/06/12/hate-your-job-clearly-youre-not-alone.aspx https://www.fool.com/careers/2017/06/12/hate-your-job-clearl... [4]: https://qz.com/375353/half-of-us-workers-have-left-a-job-because-they-hated-their-boss/ https://qz.com/375353/half-of-us-workers-have-left-a-job-bec... [5]: http://scienceblogs.com/retrospectacle/2007/04/19/americans-hate-their-jobs-more/ http://scienceblogs.com/retrospectacle/2007/04/19/americans-... The summary among all these is that somewhere between 50% and 85% of Americans “hate their jobs” and only around 13% of employees are engaged in their work (not mentally checked out). Given the breadth and consistently large effect sizes seen in the numbers reporting they hate their jobs, I simply do not believe the lone YouGov survey with contradictory results has an appropriate methodology.
MrTonyD 8y ago
Awesome comment. I wish that more people understood the system where we work. But I guess that most people are sheep, and there is less cognitive dissonance when you believe that free market is something good, and leaders are doing good things for society, and that salary and job creation are somehow inexorably tied to the status quo of the wealthy and powerful.
blueadept111 8y ago
Well said, Amen.

therealdrag0 8y ago

I've worked at three companies and enjoyed them all. Your negativity can be true, but I don't think it's always true. It could be that it's impossible for any one company to be all things to all people. Individuals have different tastes and compatibilities.

mlthoughts2018 8y ago
Whether you’ve enjoyed working at some place is not relevant. The point is that if you base a decision on aspects of a job you can’t enforce, then what you enjoy about it can change on the whim of some other people, no matter what they verbally promise or reassure you about. It is much harder to do the same thing with stated compensation or certain other benefits. I’ve had jobs I really enjoyed, then a manager quit unexpectedly and the replacement made the job horrible. I’ve enjoyed perks like working from home, then the CTO changed and disallowed all remote work. I’ve enjoyed a quiet and private office, then HR decided to rebrand us as a hip cargo-cult startup and suddenly I had to do my job embedded in a never ending stream of audio disruptions that headphones can’t mitigate. If you’ve only had generally pleasant job experiences, then from everyone else’s point of view, your approach is so clouded by insane selection bias due to the absurd rarity of that experience that effectively your perspective has to be ignored for practical decision making. I also strongly dispute the idea that any part of what I wrote is negativity, not at all. It’s not cynical, not hyperbolic, not an over-generalization. It is a perfectly neutral perspective that accounts for the necessary degree of caution and skepticism you have to have when dealing with an entity (a corporation) that is essentially a legalized sociopath.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- sonnyblarney 8y ago
  "Whether you’ve enjoyed working at some place is not relevant." It's very relevant. "The point is that if you base a decision on aspects of a job you can’t enforce, then what you enjoy about it can change on the whim of some other people, " This is called life; you don't control the Universe. I suggest this has nothing to do with employment, or GlassDoor reviews, and more of a borderline nihilist take on life in general. About 90% of Americans enjoy their work on some level [1], and about 50% are 'very satisfied' (58% for folks with Uni), and though most of us would probably quit and sunbathe or golf all day, we don't have that option and so we work together to make a better future for ourselves, our children and our communities. We all like to gripe, and even in the most perfect circumstances we'll have a tendency to externalize most of our unhappiness and attribute it to other things. 'The system' is pretty good, better than it's ever been, even massively better than it was maybe only three generations ago when most of us were on farms, mines or factories. It's always healthy to be skeptical and realistic about companies goals. "If you’ve only had generally pleasant job experiences, then from everyone else’s point of view, your approach is so clouded by insane selection bias" Given that the vast majority of folks are generally satisfied with their jobs, you might be the one with the 'perspective bias' due to perhaps a bad experience or two, because again - 90% of people are generally satisfied with their jobs, I'll gather you might personally have been somewhere in that 10%, and that the commenter's experience is more normative. [1] https://trends.collegeboard.org/education-pays/figures-tables/job-satisfaction-education-level-2008 https://trends.collegeboard.org/education-pays/figures-table...
  - mlthoughts2018 8y ago
    > “It's very relevant.” No, it is not relevant. > “This is called life; you don't control the Universe.” This too is not relevant. > “About 90% of Americans enjoy their work on some level [1], and about 50% are 'very satisfied' (58% for folks with Uni)” This is not compatible with either common sense observation nor other hard data such as [1] - [5] below. I utterly do not believe 90% of Americans enjoy their work on some level, even after reading the citation you gave and reflecting on it. That just doesn’t comport with vast other data on the topic. > “'The system' is pretty good, better than it's ever been, even massively better than it was maybe only three generations ago when most of us were on farms, mines or factories.” This also seems irrelevant. Just because a very bad thing is perhaps better than it used to be doesn’t make it good, neutral or undeserving of focused skepticism. > “Given that the vast majority of folks are generally satisfied with their jobs” They aren’t, and this point invalidates your perspective in your reply as far as I can tell. [1]: https://news.gallup.com/poll/165269/worldwide-employees-engaged-work.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/165269/worldwide-employees-enga... [2]: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-21/people-start-hating-their-jobs-at-age-35 https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-21/people-st... [3]: https://www.fool.com/careers/2017/06/12/hate-your-job-clearly-youre-not-alone.aspx https://www.fool.com/careers/2017/06/12/hate-your-job-clearl... [4]: https://qz.com/375353/half-of-us-workers-have-left-a-job-because-they-hated-their-boss/ https://qz.com/375353/half-of-us-workers-have-left-a-job-bec... [5]: http://scienceblogs.com/retrospectacle/2007/04/19/americans-hate-their-jobs-more/ http://scienceblogs.com/retrospectacle/2007/04/19/americans-... The summary among all these is that somewhere between 50% and 85% of Americans “hate their jobs” and only around 13% of employees are engaged in their work (not mentally checked out). Given the breadth and consistently large effect sizes seen in the numbers reporting they hate their jobs, I simply do not believe the lone YouGov survey with contradictory results has an appropriate methodology.

MrTonyD 8y ago

Awesome comment. I wish that more people understood the system where we work. But I guess that most people are sheep, and there is less cognitive dissonance when you believe that free market is something good, and leaders are doing good things for society, and that salary and job creation are somehow inexorably tied to the status quo of the wealthy and powerful.

blueadept111 8y ago

Well said, Amen.