8 ms·

The first time I heard of Brave, I thought Oh cool, a privacy focused, chromium based browser. But I must say I'm honestly appalled by its parasitic business mo

The first time I heard of Brave, I thought Oh cool, a privacy focused, chromium based browser. But I must say I'm honestly appalled by its parasitic business model. Content creators are strong armed into becoming verified publishers, while users have to trust Brave that their data is handled properly and carefully.

spooneybarger 8y ago
I have to trust every browser making to do the right thing with my data. Often, they don't. What's the alternative to Brave's model? I personally will keep using Firefox with an adblocker and publishers will get nothing.
- xrd 8y ago
  https://blog.teddyhyde.com/2017/10/11/take-back-your-blog-just-sprinkle-notifications-and-cryptocurrency https://blog.teddyhyde.com/2017/10/11/take-back-your-blog-ju...
giancarlostoro 8y ago
Why I never use it. I will always stick to Firefox. Firefox has yet to irritate me. A few plugins here or there is not as awful as most of what Google does. Besides if I REALLY wanted to I could run one of the GPL forks of Firefox. They may be dated after a while but they work usually. Edit: I meant to say GNU forks like IceWeasel and GNU IceCat which are licensed as GPL usually. There's other forks too. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_software_rebranded_by_Debian#Iceweasel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_software_rebranded_by_... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_IceCat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_IceCat
- sleavey 8y ago
  Firefox isn't GPL?
  - glibgil 8y ago
    Why would there be a Mozilla Public License if not to be used for Firefox?
    - sleavey 8y ago
      I see. Are there any major differences in the two licences? I'm interested why the OP specifically mentioned GPL forks of Firefox.
      - giancarlostoro 8y ago
        It's GPL compatible, and I wrote GPL instead of GNU. There's IceWeasel which is a Debian fork of Firefox to debrand it from all the Firefox trademarks and logos. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_IceCat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_IceCat They basically use scripts that build IceCat apparently from the original source code. I'm guessing they diff against FireFox.
raitucarp 8y ago
"parasitic business model." Can you elaborate more?
- spooneybarger 8y ago
  Brave has a really good built-in adblocker. You can join a brave program that users can take part in as well to run some ads on approved sites. That's the short version. It's pitched as a way to allow people like me who won't browse without an adblocker a way to contribute to sites we like.
  - runn1ng 8y ago
    They have some token thing where you can pay to the website directly through BLOCKCHAIN (!!!!). Otherwise it just blocks all ads to all the websites. They have their own token (with ICO and all that) and you can pay websites through that. I am quite sceptical about that.
    - jonathansampson 8y ago
      Your first comment is a bit misleading; Brave blocks third-party ads and trackers by default. You don't have to give BAT to anybody for this functionality—it's our baseline. We block third-party ads and trackers because they have been leverage to spread malware, inject crypto-mining scripts into pages, push malicious extension onto unsuspecting users, and more. Not to mention, the entire model of unannounced tracking is in stark contrast to GDPR and relevant legislation. The user ought to be sovereign over their machine, their experience, and their data. That is what Brave believes. We understand that blocking ads and trackers will result in some impact to many websites. It is for this reason we created the User Growth Pool during our token sale, setting aside 300M Basic Attention Tokens. For several months we have been channeling the UGP funds into the wallets of content creators. We do this via regular, monthly grants to users (which wind up going to their top sites), referral links which pay $5 in BAT for every user you bring to the Brave platform, contests (such as our 100K BAT giveaway), and more. We understand that has helpful as the UGP is, it won't be there forever. As such, the web needs to be sustained by some other means. This is why we're developing Brave Ads. Brave Ads is a completely-opt-in digital advertising model which doesn't leak private data, doesn't reward fraudsters and scammers, and doesn't put Brave in any position to abuse your trust as a user. With Brave Ads, consenting users will benefit from local (on your device) machine-learning, which uses it's knowledge of the user to select the best ads to display. The ML operates off of local data, meaning nothing is sent out to third parties, and Brave isn't collecting personal information about you. If the user consents to seeing ads, they will also collect up to 70% of the ad revenue. Users will finally get paid for their attention; they've had their attention stolen from them for far too long. As I stated earlier though, all of this is optional. If you choose not to participate in Brave Ads, you still get a solid ad-and-tracker blocker in Brave. And you still get the option to directly support your favorite content creators out of your own pocket.
arjbah 8y ago
What're you talking about? Their content creator program is completely voluntary, and their business model (and the Basic Attention Token) is designed to serve content creators, and is not driven by ads or data collection (like Chrome is). Brave is the only hope I see for a strictly "privacy-by-default" browser, which is not powered by an ad-based business model. Brendan Eich isn't a dumbell, he knows what is wrong with broswer-based privacy and what needs fixing. PS: I use Brave on Android and the experience has been better than Chrome.
- user812 8y ago
  Edit: Sorry for not following the rules
  - michaelt 8y ago
    Honestly I can't see how anything of this is problematic for anyone Perhaps they heard about Brave blocking ads and... replacing them with different ads [1] that Brave makes money from. That pretty much means the ads-are-cancer crowd don't like them, and the adblockers-are-theft crowd don't like them either. [1] https://www.computerworld.com/article/3284076/web-browsers/brave-browser-begins-controversial-ad-repeal-and-replace-tests.html https://www.computerworld.com/article/3284076/web-browsers/b... https://www.wired.com/2016/04/brave-software-publishers-respond/ https://www.wired.com/2016/04/brave-software-publishers-resp...
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  - zimbatm 8y ago
    Layer 3 implies that there is some system that tracks user to reward content creator according. How is this not a tracking system? Without knowing the implementation details it looks like Brave is (1) removing all the competition, (2) except the ones that play nice, (3) force content creators to buy into their system. I think it's good that they are trying to find a solution for content creators to monetize their content. Instead on making suppositions on the OP, why not address those points? Why is using Brave not like building the tracking even further into the browser?
hliyan 8y ago
I don't know much about this browser, but I'm finding it strange that multiple accounts are describing it using the same adjective ("parasitic") without actually explaining what it does.
- mswift42 8y ago
  Brave's business model is to replace a web site's ads for which the web site gets compensated for, with ads brave gets compensated for.
  - jonathansampson 8y ago
    That is misleading. Brave blocks third-party ads and trackers (which are not only harmful to users, but often make up more than 50% of all data loaded). Brave is testing an optional digital advertising model which operates via local (on the user's device) machine-learning to match ads. If a user opts into this component, they will earn up to 70% of the ad revenue. In the future we will offer publishers (websites) the ability to partner, permitting Brave to display ads on their pages. In this arrangement, publishers will receive 70% of the ad-revenue (far better deal than what most see today), and users will receive 15% for their attention. In either model, the user must first consent to see ads. Sampson Developer Brave Software
    - gruez 8y ago
      >That is misleading. I'm not sure how that post is misleading. And your responses are either evasive or does not contradict what is originally being claimed. >Brave blocks third-party ads and trackers (which are not only harmful to users, but often make up more than 50% of all data loaded). Considering "replacing" ads involve removing the original ones, I'm not sure how this this disproves mswift42's post >Brave is testing an optional digital advertising model which operates via local (on the user's device) machine-learning to match ads. If a user opts into this component, they will earn up to 70% of the ad revenue. >In the future we will offer publishers (websites) the ability to partner, permitting Brave to display ads on their pages. In this arrangement, publishers will receive 70% of the ad-revenue (far better deal than what most see today), and users will receive 15% for their attention. There's still 30% and 15% left, respectively in those examples. Is brave taking any % of that? if so, they're making money off of replaced ads. >In either model, the user must first consent to see ads. I fail to see how consent is relevant to a post about what Brave's business model is, especially one that's making a statement without any moral judgement.
throwaway4864a 8y ago
You mean like a company building a cool search service, but then strong arming companies into buying ads if they want to actually show up at the top of results?
strainer 8y ago
Disappointed this comment was not flagged for declaring disgust with the product on top of a single sentence characterization of its business model.
googletron 8y ago
works on Google Chrome

spooneybarger 8y ago

I have to trust every browser making to do the right thing with my data. Often, they don't. What's the alternative to Brave's model? I personally will keep using Firefox with an adblocker and publishers will get nothing.

xrd 8y ago
https://blog.teddyhyde.com/2017/10/11/take-back-your-blog-just-sprinkle-notifications-and-cryptocurrency https://blog.teddyhyde.com/2017/10/11/take-back-your-blog-ju...

giancarlostoro 8y ago

Why I never use it. I will always stick to Firefox. Firefox has yet to irritate me. A few plugins here or there is not as awful as most of what Google does. Besides if I REALLY wanted to I could run one of the GPL forks of Firefox. They may be dated after a while but they work usually. Edit: I meant to say GNU forks like IceWeasel and GNU IceCat which are licensed as GPL usually. There's other forks too. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_software_rebranded_by_Debian#Iceweasel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_software_rebranded_by_... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_IceCat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_IceCat

sleavey 8y ago
Firefox isn't GPL?
- glibgil 8y ago
  Why would there be a Mozilla Public License if not to be used for Firefox?
  - sleavey 8y ago
    I see. Are there any major differences in the two licences? I'm interested why the OP specifically mentioned GPL forks of Firefox.
    - giancarlostoro 8y ago
      It's GPL compatible, and I wrote GPL instead of GNU. There's IceWeasel which is a Debian fork of Firefox to debrand it from all the Firefox trademarks and logos. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_IceCat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_IceCat They basically use scripts that build IceCat apparently from the original source code. I'm guessing they diff against FireFox.

raitucarp 8y ago

"parasitic business model." Can you elaborate more?

spooneybarger 8y ago
Brave has a really good built-in adblocker. You can join a brave program that users can take part in as well to run some ads on approved sites. That's the short version. It's pitched as a way to allow people like me who won't browse without an adblocker a way to contribute to sites we like.
- runn1ng 8y ago
  They have some token thing where you can pay to the website directly through BLOCKCHAIN (!!!!). Otherwise it just blocks all ads to all the websites. They have their own token (with ICO and all that) and you can pay websites through that. I am quite sceptical about that.
  - jonathansampson 8y ago
    Your first comment is a bit misleading; Brave blocks third-party ads and trackers by default. You don't have to give BAT to anybody for this functionality—it's our baseline. We block third-party ads and trackers because they have been leverage to spread malware, inject crypto-mining scripts into pages, push malicious extension onto unsuspecting users, and more. Not to mention, the entire model of unannounced tracking is in stark contrast to GDPR and relevant legislation. The user ought to be sovereign over their machine, their experience, and their data. That is what Brave believes. We understand that blocking ads and trackers will result in some impact to many websites. It is for this reason we created the User Growth Pool during our token sale, setting aside 300M Basic Attention Tokens. For several months we have been channeling the UGP funds into the wallets of content creators. We do this via regular, monthly grants to users (which wind up going to their top sites), referral links which pay $5 in BAT for every user you bring to the Brave platform, contests (such as our 100K BAT giveaway), and more. We understand that has helpful as the UGP is, it won't be there forever. As such, the web needs to be sustained by some other means. This is why we're developing Brave Ads. Brave Ads is a completely-opt-in digital advertising model which doesn't leak private data, doesn't reward fraudsters and scammers, and doesn't put Brave in any position to abuse your trust as a user. With Brave Ads, consenting users will benefit from local (on your device) machine-learning, which uses it's knowledge of the user to select the best ads to display. The ML operates off of local data, meaning nothing is sent out to third parties, and Brave isn't collecting personal information about you. If the user consents to seeing ads, they will also collect up to 70% of the ad revenue. Users will finally get paid for their attention; they've had their attention stolen from them for far too long. As I stated earlier though, all of this is optional. If you choose not to participate in Brave Ads, you still get a solid ad-and-tracker blocker in Brave. And you still get the option to directly support your favorite content creators out of your own pocket.

arjbah 8y ago

What're you talking about? Their content creator program is completely voluntary, and their business model (and the Basic Attention Token) is designed to serve content creators, and is not driven by ads or data collection (like Chrome is). Brave is the only hope I see for a strictly "privacy-by-default" browser, which is not powered by an ad-based business model. Brendan Eich isn't a dumbell, he knows what is wrong with broswer-based privacy and what needs fixing. PS: I use Brave on Android and the experience has been better than Chrome.

user812 8y ago
Edit: Sorry for not following the rules
- michaelt 8y ago
  Honestly I can't see how anything of this is problematic for anyone Perhaps they heard about Brave blocking ads and... replacing them with different ads [1] that Brave makes money from. That pretty much means the ads-are-cancer crowd don't like them, and the adblockers-are-theft crowd don't like them either. [1] https://www.computerworld.com/article/3284076/web-browsers/brave-browser-begins-controversial-ad-repeal-and-replace-tests.html https://www.computerworld.com/article/3284076/web-browsers/b... https://www.wired.com/2016/04/brave-software-publishers-respond/ https://www.wired.com/2016/04/brave-software-publishers-resp...
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- zimbatm 8y ago
  Layer 3 implies that there is some system that tracks user to reward content creator according. How is this not a tracking system? Without knowing the implementation details it looks like Brave is (1) removing all the competition, (2) except the ones that play nice, (3) force content creators to buy into their system. I think it's good that they are trying to find a solution for content creators to monetize their content. Instead on making suppositions on the OP, why not address those points? Why is using Brave not like building the tracking even further into the browser?

hliyan 8y ago

I don't know much about this browser, but I'm finding it strange that multiple accounts are describing it using the same adjective ("parasitic") without actually explaining what it does.

mswift42 8y ago
Brave's business model is to replace a web site's ads for which the web site gets compensated for, with ads brave gets compensated for.
- jonathansampson 8y ago
  That is misleading. Brave blocks third-party ads and trackers (which are not only harmful to users, but often make up more than 50% of all data loaded). Brave is testing an optional digital advertising model which operates via local (on the user's device) machine-learning to match ads. If a user opts into this component, they will earn up to 70% of the ad revenue. In the future we will offer publishers (websites) the ability to partner, permitting Brave to display ads on their pages. In this arrangement, publishers will receive 70% of the ad-revenue (far better deal than what most see today), and users will receive 15% for their attention. In either model, the user must first consent to see ads. Sampson Developer Brave Software
  - gruez 8y ago
    >That is misleading. I'm not sure how that post is misleading. And your responses are either evasive or does not contradict what is originally being claimed. >Brave blocks third-party ads and trackers (which are not only harmful to users, but often make up more than 50% of all data loaded). Considering "replacing" ads involve removing the original ones, I'm not sure how this this disproves mswift42's post >Brave is testing an optional digital advertising model which operates via local (on the user's device) machine-learning to match ads. If a user opts into this component, they will earn up to 70% of the ad revenue. >In the future we will offer publishers (websites) the ability to partner, permitting Brave to display ads on their pages. In this arrangement, publishers will receive 70% of the ad-revenue (far better deal than what most see today), and users will receive 15% for their attention. There's still 30% and 15% left, respectively in those examples. Is brave taking any % of that? if so, they're making money off of replaced ads. >In either model, the user must first consent to see ads. I fail to see how consent is relevant to a post about what Brave's business model is, especially one that's making a statement without any moral judgement.

throwaway4864a 8y ago

You mean like a company building a cool search service, but then strong arming companies into buying ads if they want to actually show up at the top of results?

strainer 8y ago

Disappointed this comment was not flagged for declaring disgust with the product on top of a single sentence characterization of its business model.

googletron 8y ago

works on Google Chrome