6 ms·

The change from Windows server licenses to the cloud (Azure) forced this upon Microsoft.

techntoke 8y ago
And a majority of Azure runs on Linux, and the major selling points for Windows now is it runs Linux and works with Kubernetes/Docker. Containers still run poorly compared to Linux though and mounting volumes is mostly broken from anything but PowerShell.
- rbanffy 8y ago
  > and the major selling points for Windows now is it runs Linux and works with Kubernetes/Docker. The major selling point for Windows is that it comes preinstalled on the Dell/HP/Lenovo computers our muggles buy. For corporations, the ability to manage identities and lock down the machines from a central location is a killer. The main selling point of Windows for web developers is that it can do that and still run Office well. As a developer, I'm unconvinced about the value of that second part though. And not convinced at all about the first one too because Macs are Linux-like enough and Linux machines, well, are Linux machines (even when they come with Windows, installing Debian, Ubuntu or Fedora is a zero-effort thing).
  - qwerty456127 8y ago
    The major selling point for Windows is MS Office (even the Mac version is not complete), Visual Studio and Windows-only games in Steam. if only GNU/Linux would became an officially supported platform for full and up-to-date versions of MS Office, VisualStutio, Adobe Photoshop/Illustrator and best-selling games then Windows would be forced into a fair competition which would be fairly hard for it to win.
    - rbanffy 8y ago
      Visual Studio is great if you develop for Windows and less than useless if you don't. The vast majority of humankind does not need the full feature set of Office (most, in fact, would be quite happy with Google's or Microsoft's web based counterparts). As a developer, I don't need Photoshop or Illustrator - I can get away with Inkscape and Gimp - even when I work on a Mac, where the Adobe apps are available. As for games... Well... Just buy a gaming rig or a PlayStation. I don't want games on my work computer.
- Rapzid 8y ago
  I'm impressed how quickly they jumped on board and started working on support though. OSX is supposedly the developers environment of choice these days; where is Apple on native docker support?
  - mr_toad 8y ago
    You mean Docker running under a native hypervisor (Docker already supports Hyperkit), or a Docker machine running something other than Linux? Docker is so dependant on Linux that any attempt to write a native containerisation for another OS would mean starting from scratch. And the licensing of both Windows and MacOS would make it a non-starter.
    - techntoke 8y ago
      This is the only way I could get Docker volumes to work correctly with WSL, and it only works about half the time: https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/virtualization/2017/12/08/wsl-interoperability-with-docker/ https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/virtualization/2017/12/0...
    - ComputerGuru 8y ago
      Microsoft already has a version of docker that runs Windows on host and guest
      - Too 8y ago
        Docker on windows host runs in a virtualbox running linux last time i checked.
        ComputerGuru 8y ago
        There are two different editions. The more popular runs a Linux kernel in a spun up HyperV instance, but the Windows-only solution has images built off of Windows Nano Server instead of Linux. Their docker images/apps are incompatible.
- wallstop 8y ago
  Do you have a source for the majority of of azure running on Linux? Would be very interested to see this.
  - bubblethink 8y ago
    I think they meant majority of azure clients (i.e., people running vms on azure) running linux, not that azure itself runs on linux. Linux was above 40% sometime last year in azure stats, and I think it crossed 50% sometime recently.
  - mr_toad 8y ago
    Outside of a forklift migration, why would you run a Windows Server VM?
  - techntoke 8y ago
    This is the only article I could find doing a quick search: https://www.wired.com/2015/09/microsoft-using-linux-run-cloud/ https://www.wired.com/2015/09/microsoft-using-linux-run-clou... https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/microsoft-showcases-the-azure-cloud-switch-acs/ https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/microsoft-showcases-t... However, I could have swore I read semi-recently that Azure itself was primarily running on Linux, but I could be wrong here in some regards.
  - crb 8y ago
    https://www.zdnet.com/google-amp/article/linux-now-dominates-azure/ https://www.zdnet.com/google-amp/article/linux-now-dominates... "Today, Scott Guthrie, Microsoft's executive vice president of the cloud and enterprise group, said in an interview, "it's about half now, but it varies on the day because a lot of these workloads are elastic, but sometimes slightly over half of Azure VMs are Linux." Microsoft later clarified, "about half Azure VMs are Linux.""
    - philliphaydon 8y ago
      So Linux running on Azure, not Azure running on Linux?

And a majority of Azure runs on Linux, and the major selling points for Windows now is it runs Linux and works with Kubernetes/Docker. Containers still run poorly compared to Linux though and mounting volumes is mostly broken from anything but PowerShell.

rbanffy 8y ago
> and the major selling points for Windows now is it runs Linux and works with Kubernetes/Docker. The major selling point for Windows is that it comes preinstalled on the Dell/HP/Lenovo computers our muggles buy. For corporations, the ability to manage identities and lock down the machines from a central location is a killer. The main selling point of Windows for web developers is that it can do that and still run Office well. As a developer, I'm unconvinced about the value of that second part though. And not convinced at all about the first one too because Macs are Linux-like enough and Linux machines, well, are Linux machines (even when they come with Windows, installing Debian, Ubuntu or Fedora is a zero-effort thing).
- qwerty456127 8y ago
  The major selling point for Windows is MS Office (even the Mac version is not complete), Visual Studio and Windows-only games in Steam. if only GNU/Linux would became an officially supported platform for full and up-to-date versions of MS Office, VisualStutio, Adobe Photoshop/Illustrator and best-selling games then Windows would be forced into a fair competition which would be fairly hard for it to win.
  - rbanffy 8y ago
    Visual Studio is great if you develop for Windows and less than useless if you don't. The vast majority of humankind does not need the full feature set of Office (most, in fact, would be quite happy with Google's or Microsoft's web based counterparts). As a developer, I don't need Photoshop or Illustrator - I can get away with Inkscape and Gimp - even when I work on a Mac, where the Adobe apps are available. As for games... Well... Just buy a gaming rig or a PlayStation. I don't want games on my work computer.
Rapzid 8y ago
I'm impressed how quickly they jumped on board and started working on support though. OSX is supposedly the developers environment of choice these days; where is Apple on native docker support?
- mr_toad 8y ago
  You mean Docker running under a native hypervisor (Docker already supports Hyperkit), or a Docker machine running something other than Linux? Docker is so dependant on Linux that any attempt to write a native containerisation for another OS would mean starting from scratch. And the licensing of both Windows and MacOS would make it a non-starter.
  - techntoke 8y ago
    This is the only way I could get Docker volumes to work correctly with WSL, and it only works about half the time: https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/virtualization/2017/12/08/wsl-interoperability-with-docker/ https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/virtualization/2017/12/0...
  - ComputerGuru 8y ago
    Microsoft already has a version of docker that runs Windows on host and guest
    - Too 8y ago
      Docker on windows host runs in a virtualbox running linux last time i checked.
      - ComputerGuru 8y ago
        There are two different editions. The more popular runs a Linux kernel in a spun up HyperV instance, but the Windows-only solution has images built off of Windows Nano Server instead of Linux. Their docker images/apps are incompatible.
wallstop 8y ago
Do you have a source for the majority of of azure running on Linux? Would be very interested to see this.
- bubblethink 8y ago
  I think they meant majority of azure clients (i.e., people running vms on azure) running linux, not that azure itself runs on linux. Linux was above 40% sometime last year in azure stats, and I think it crossed 50% sometime recently.
- mr_toad 8y ago
  Outside of a forklift migration, why would you run a Windows Server VM?
- techntoke 8y ago
  This is the only article I could find doing a quick search: https://www.wired.com/2015/09/microsoft-using-linux-run-cloud/ https://www.wired.com/2015/09/microsoft-using-linux-run-clou... https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/microsoft-showcases-the-azure-cloud-switch-acs/ https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/microsoft-showcases-t... However, I could have swore I read semi-recently that Azure itself was primarily running on Linux, but I could be wrong here in some regards.
- crb 8y ago
  https://www.zdnet.com/google-amp/article/linux-now-dominates-azure/ https://www.zdnet.com/google-amp/article/linux-now-dominates... "Today, Scott Guthrie, Microsoft's executive vice president of the cloud and enterprise group, said in an interview, "it's about half now, but it varies on the day because a lot of these workloads are elastic, but sometimes slightly over half of Azure VMs are Linux." Microsoft later clarified, "about half Azure VMs are Linux.""
  - philliphaydon 8y ago
    So Linux running on Azure, not Azure running on Linux?