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Lost in Occupation: How Google Maps Is Erasing Palestine

92 points by xtof 8y ago

alottafunchata 8y ago
Who cares?
- sctb 8y ago
  Accounts that won't comment civilly and substantively get banned, so we'd appreciate it if you would please read the guidelines and start following them. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Papirola 8y ago
yes, maps are important. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Ramallah_lynching#Incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Ramallah_lynching#Inciden...
- shmerl 8y ago
  There was a recent incident, were drivers were almost lynched, after making a wrong turn.
- salehk 8y ago
  Tensions were running high: over 100 Palestinians, nearly two dozen of them minors, had been killed in the preceding two weeks in violent protests with Israelis forces in Ramallah,[11] and four days earlier, the badly beaten body of Issam Hamad (36) had been dumped outside of the city after being run over by a car, an autopsy revealed. His death, according to Marwan Bishara of Al Jazeera, was attributed by locals to settlers in Halamish.[12] Both Haaretz and Maariv reported that approximately 13 Palestinian policemen were injured while attempting to stop the lynching Israel kills and injures 100s of Palestinians, Palestinians try to stop angry mob. Somehow Israel is not at fault. You're right maps are important and they should be accessible to everyone.
  - Papirola 8y ago
    9/10 on mental gymnastics. > Israel kills and injures 100s of Palestinians, Palestinians try to stop angry mob. Somehow Israel is not at fault. the palestineans actions were so virtuous, yet they found the need to break the reporter's camera, and threaten the italian news agency into not reporting about the lynch. you may claim that the IDF committed crimes (a discussion for another time) but lynching is at the same level as cannibalism. one thing is mistreating/torturing/executing a POW. another is lynching two people, telling the wife of one of them from his cell phone "we are killing your husband" and then raising your blood drenched hands from the window greeting the cheering crowd below.
    - NeedMoreTea 8y ago
      Do we simply ignore Israel's illegal occupation, and the oppression of the people of Palestine? I suppose that does provide better framing to pick out and criticise an individual act by the Palestinians.
      - HBlix 8y ago
        At what point do we stop calling it an occupation, like it’s a temporary state of affairs, and call it what it is? None of us live in a land that was free from a history (some very recent) of violent conquest, and to be clear I know I’m taking a purely amoral stance here. I’m not saying that Israel is the “good guy” I’m just noting that they clearly won, and international fantasies aside, that’s done. So when is it just a conquest and not an occupation? 70 more years? 170? When does Israel stop being a special case the rest of the world uses as a distraction from their own recent history of violent conquest? Do you seriously think Palestinians have a future that isn’t as a diaspora of refugees? If we’re just into pure quality of life, I’d argue that resettlement in Jordan, SA, Egypt and other neighbors would be better than leaving them stuffed into a few small regions of a country they no longer control and never will again. Of course then they can’t be used by oppressive Arab regimes as a scapegoat and distraction. I want to say that I realize how unpopular this view is likely to be here, and I’d just ask that you set aside what you want to be, and just consider what is. I’m not arguing for the right or wrong of the situation, just the reality and immutability of it. I don’t think it’s very fair that the U.S. is built on the graves of a whole series of cultures and peoples, but I also recognize that calling the U.S. an occupying force would be a farce.
- NeedMoreTea 8y ago
  I agree, try these: http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/mapstellstory.html http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/mapstellstory.... My link is actually to maps. The amount of land lost by Palestine since 1947, and the tacit approval by the West is something we should be ashamed of.
  - atemerev 8y ago
    There was no independent Palestine before, or after, 1947. So no “land loss”.
    - crooked-v 8y ago
      If there's no independent Palestine, then Israel is "merely" allowing land to be stolen from its own apartheid-oppressed citizens by the favored social class. That's supposed to be... better, somehow?
  - josh_fyi 8y ago
    This set of maps is a fabrication http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2012/07/debunking-map-that-lies.html http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2012/07/debunking-map-that-...
torstenvl 8y ago
So they won't even touch the efforts to combat ISIS, but they'll disenfranchise Palestinian civilians from their service. Sounds like a great moral compass they have over there.
- Papirola 8y ago
  I'm sorry but who is "they"? Google? Israel? the palestineans?
jbob2000 8y ago
Google leadership, up and down, is filled with people who are of Jewish and Israeli heritage (or are married to them). What did you expect? Find me a Palestinian in any of their leadership team. I'm not suggesting they're intentionally doing this with google maps, but lacking a Palestinian voice, it's easy for Jewish and Israeli bias to take over.
- Papirola 8y ago
  that's an interesting (albeit classically racist) proposition. so, Jews control the banks, the media, tech, politics... what do you think prevents "palestinean voices" from participating in those meritocratic endeavors? PS: how do I flag racist comments?
  - jbob2000 8y ago
    What? How was this comment racist? I'm actually curious. Do you disagree that google has a strong jewish presence? I never said anything about them in banks, media, politics. All I did was search "google executive team" and looked through their wikipedia pages. > what do you think prevents "palestinean voices" from participating in those meritocratic endeavors? They're under a blockade by the Israelis, that'll do it.
    - Papirola 8y ago
      one thing is to say: Google leadership is there thanks to their talents and accomplishments; many of them happen to be Jewish. other thing is what you said: > Google leadership, up and down, is filled with people who are of Jewish and Israeli heritage (or are married to them). What did you expect? Find me a Palestinian in any of their leadership team your version implies that they are at leadership positions _because_ they are Jewish, and furthermore there can't be any palestinean for the same reason. as for the "blockade" - newsflash: there are people of palestinean heritage living in the US leading very successful lives
      - jbob2000 8y ago

92 points by xtof 8y ago

alottafunchata 8y ago

Who cares?

sctb 8y ago
Accounts that won't comment civilly and substantively get banned, so we'd appreciate it if you would please read the guidelines and start following them. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Papirola 8y ago

yes, maps are important. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Ramallah_lynching#Incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Ramallah_lynching#Inciden...

shmerl 8y ago
There was a recent incident, were drivers were almost lynched, after making a wrong turn.
salehk 8y ago
Tensions were running high: over 100 Palestinians, nearly two dozen of them minors, had been killed in the preceding two weeks in violent protests with Israelis forces in Ramallah,[11] and four days earlier, the badly beaten body of Issam Hamad (36) had been dumped outside of the city after being run over by a car, an autopsy revealed. His death, according to Marwan Bishara of Al Jazeera, was attributed by locals to settlers in Halamish.[12] Both Haaretz and Maariv reported that approximately 13 Palestinian policemen were injured while attempting to stop the lynching Israel kills and injures 100s of Palestinians, Palestinians try to stop angry mob. Somehow Israel is not at fault. You're right maps are important and they should be accessible to everyone.
- Papirola 8y ago
  9/10 on mental gymnastics. > Israel kills and injures 100s of Palestinians, Palestinians try to stop angry mob. Somehow Israel is not at fault. the palestineans actions were so virtuous, yet they found the need to break the reporter's camera, and threaten the italian news agency into not reporting about the lynch. you may claim that the IDF committed crimes (a discussion for another time) but lynching is at the same level as cannibalism. one thing is mistreating/torturing/executing a POW. another is lynching two people, telling the wife of one of them from his cell phone "we are killing your husband" and then raising your blood drenched hands from the window greeting the cheering crowd below.
  - NeedMoreTea 8y ago
    Do we simply ignore Israel's illegal occupation, and the oppression of the people of Palestine? I suppose that does provide better framing to pick out and criticise an individual act by the Palestinians.
    - HBlix 8y ago
      At what point do we stop calling it an occupation, like it’s a temporary state of affairs, and call it what it is? None of us live in a land that was free from a history (some very recent) of violent conquest, and to be clear I know I’m taking a purely amoral stance here. I’m not saying that Israel is the “good guy” I’m just noting that they clearly won, and international fantasies aside, that’s done. So when is it just a conquest and not an occupation? 70 more years? 170? When does Israel stop being a special case the rest of the world uses as a distraction from their own recent history of violent conquest? Do you seriously think Palestinians have a future that isn’t as a diaspora of refugees? If we’re just into pure quality of life, I’d argue that resettlement in Jordan, SA, Egypt and other neighbors would be better than leaving them stuffed into a few small regions of a country they no longer control and never will again. Of course then they can’t be used by oppressive Arab regimes as a scapegoat and distraction. I want to say that I realize how unpopular this view is likely to be here, and I’d just ask that you set aside what you want to be, and just consider what is. I’m not arguing for the right or wrong of the situation, just the reality and immutability of it. I don’t think it’s very fair that the U.S. is built on the graves of a whole series of cultures and peoples, but I also recognize that calling the U.S. an occupying force would be a farce.
NeedMoreTea 8y ago
I agree, try these: http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/mapstellstory.html http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/mapstellstory.... My link is actually to maps. The amount of land lost by Palestine since 1947, and the tacit approval by the West is something we should be ashamed of.
- atemerev 8y ago
  There was no independent Palestine before, or after, 1947. So no “land loss”.
  - crooked-v 8y ago
    If there's no independent Palestine, then Israel is "merely" allowing land to be stolen from its own apartheid-oppressed citizens by the favored social class. That's supposed to be... better, somehow?
- josh_fyi 8y ago
  This set of maps is a fabrication http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2012/07/debunking-map-that-lies.html http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2012/07/debunking-map-that-...

torstenvl 8y ago

So they won't even touch the efforts to combat ISIS, but they'll disenfranchise Palestinian civilians from their service. Sounds like a great moral compass they have over there.

Papirola 8y ago
I'm sorry but who is "they"? Google? Israel? the palestineans?

jbob2000 8y ago

Google leadership, up and down, is filled with people who are of Jewish and Israeli heritage (or are married to them). What did you expect? Find me a Palestinian in any of their leadership team. I'm not suggesting they're intentionally doing this with google maps, but lacking a Palestinian voice, it's easy for Jewish and Israeli bias to take over.

Papirola 8y ago
that's an interesting (albeit classically racist) proposition. so, Jews control the banks, the media, tech, politics... what do you think prevents "palestinean voices" from participating in those meritocratic endeavors? PS: how do I flag racist comments?
- jbob2000 8y ago
  What? How was this comment racist? I'm actually curious. Do you disagree that google has a strong jewish presence? I never said anything about them in banks, media, politics. All I did was search "google executive team" and looked through their wikipedia pages. > what do you think prevents "palestinean voices" from participating in those meritocratic endeavors? They're under a blockade by the Israelis, that'll do it.
  - Papirola 8y ago
    one thing is to say: Google leadership is there thanks to their talents and accomplishments; many of them happen to be Jewish. other thing is what you said: > Google leadership, up and down, is filled with people who are of Jewish and Israeli heritage (or are married to them). What did you expect? Find me a Palestinian in any of their leadership team your version implies that they are at leadership positions _because_ they are Jewish, and furthermore there can't be any palestinean for the same reason. as for the "blockade" - newsflash: there are people of palestinean heritage living in the US leading very successful lives
    - jbob2000 8y ago