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It might be totally unfeasible for a consumer to get your rights over a small repair, but you do have EU-law protection for your rights as a consumer. Article

by wjnc 8y ago

It might be totally unfeasible for a consumer to get your rights over a small repair, but you do have EU-law protection for your rights as a consumer. Article 3 of the directive [1] states your rights quite clearly: "Any repair or replacement shall be completed within a reasonable time and without any significant inconvenience to the consumer, taking account of the nature of the goods and the purpose for which the consumer required the goods." If the seller does not meet these guidelines (possibly enacted in local law, but this has to be within the framework set by the directive) you can annul the contract and get your money back. For a laptop, 3 weeks seems unreasonable and with significant inconvenience. The bigger point is that Apple seems to be totally in denial of European consumer law and actively seeks to hinder timely and convenient repairs. That is one that should be addressed at a European level. They allow stores to sell their product without being able to offer the minimum warranty. Via EU-law that's a problem for the seller, not so much Apple, but the EU could argue that it's Apple that is setting the agenda and hindering stores to give proper warranty. [1] https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A31999L0044 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A...

tobyhinloopen 8y ago
I hope we get a "right to repair" law in EU, where the seller is required by law to provide repairability services next to their regular warranties. That means that, as a seller, you must provide a service to repair (and replacement parts) for "reasonable" prices for anything you sell. For example, if you're selling notebooks, you must be able to provide notebook parts and repair as well for the products you sell. Context: Imagine dropping your macbook and the screen breaks; You must be able to get it replaced for a "reasonable" price and you must be able to buy a replacement screen to repair it yourself. The seller must provide these services (either by delegating it to a repair or repairing it themselves)
- chiefalchemist 8y ago
  Maintainability is a feature, so to speak. Another option would be to purchase the product that best fits your needs, including warranty, repair, parts, upgrading, etc. If Brand A decides it's best to not provide Feature X and you __need__ Feature X, then you can decide that Brand A isn't for you. If anything should be legislated it should be publishing the details about warranty coverage, average cost or repair, most common repairs, as well as turnaround times. Then, with that info, let the consumer make the decision that best fits them.
  - swift532 8y ago
    As a "consumer" who develops iOS apps, what alternative choice to a mac can I make? With monopolies that tend to crop up these days, the phrase that customers have a choice rings hollow.
    - chiefalchemist 8y ago
      Today? Few. However, in doing this, Apple is creating opportunity - provided the market wants an alternative. That being said, the arc of my point is, that if there's going to be legislation it should start with information that enables the consumer, not inject Uncle Sam into another problem that it's unprepared and unable to solve.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - tomxor 8y ago
    > Maintainability is a feature, so to speak. Yes, but lets be clear, this is not lack of maintainability... this is very clearly _anti_maintainability, there is a big difference. There is nothing inherent to the hardware design here that makes replacing components impossible, just the addition of this one chip for the single purpose of preventing it. And it's not surprising, we all know Apple's position on Unofficial or user repair options.
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago
  > you must be able to provide notebook parts and repair as well for the products you sell You’re proposing commanding companies to erect and maintain new and complex supply chains and packaging schemes. It’s a well-meaning proposal. But it will be costly. That will deter new entrants and increase prices in your market. Do this many times from different perspectives and you end up with a towering bureaucracy and sclerotic economy.
pc86 8y ago
But if "the nature of the goods" required them to ship the laptop to Apple to have a diagnostic run after the repair, and that takes a few weeks?
- PhasmaFelis 8y ago
  It doesn't, though. There is nothing fundamental to the concept of a laptop that requires lengthy, licensed repair. That's the point of the law--you're allowed to be realistic about your product's needs, you're not allowed to deliberately make it harder than it has to be, so you can corner the repair market.

by wjnc 8y ago

tobyhinloopen 8y ago

I hope we get a "right to repair" law in EU, where the seller is required by law to provide repairability services next to their regular warranties. That means that, as a seller, you must provide a service to repair (and replacement parts) for "reasonable" prices for anything you sell. For example, if you're selling notebooks, you must be able to provide notebook parts and repair as well for the products you sell. Context: Imagine dropping your macbook and the screen breaks; You must be able to get it replaced for a "reasonable" price and you must be able to buy a replacement screen to repair it yourself. The seller must provide these services (either by delegating it to a repair or repairing it themselves)

chiefalchemist 8y ago
Maintainability is a feature, so to speak. Another option would be to purchase the product that best fits your needs, including warranty, repair, parts, upgrading, etc. If Brand A decides it's best to not provide Feature X and you __need__ Feature X, then you can decide that Brand A isn't for you. If anything should be legislated it should be publishing the details about warranty coverage, average cost or repair, most common repairs, as well as turnaround times. Then, with that info, let the consumer make the decision that best fits them.
- swift532 8y ago
  As a "consumer" who develops iOS apps, what alternative choice to a mac can I make? With monopolies that tend to crop up these days, the phrase that customers have a choice rings hollow.
  - chiefalchemist 8y ago
    Today? Few. However, in doing this, Apple is creating opportunity - provided the market wants an alternative. That being said, the arc of my point is, that if there's going to be legislation it should start with information that enables the consumer, not inject Uncle Sam into another problem that it's unprepared and unable to solve.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- tomxor 8y ago
  > Maintainability is a feature, so to speak. Yes, but lets be clear, this is not lack of maintainability... this is very clearly _anti_maintainability, there is a big difference. There is nothing inherent to the hardware design here that makes replacing components impossible, just the addition of this one chip for the single purpose of preventing it. And it's not surprising, we all know Apple's position on Unofficial or user repair options.
JumpCrisscross 8y ago
> you must be able to provide notebook parts and repair as well for the products you sell You’re proposing commanding companies to erect and maintain new and complex supply chains and packaging schemes. It’s a well-meaning proposal. But it will be costly. That will deter new entrants and increase prices in your market. Do this many times from different perspectives and you end up with a towering bureaucracy and sclerotic economy.

pc86 8y ago

But if "the nature of the goods" required them to ship the laptop to Apple to have a diagnostic run after the repair, and that takes a few weeks?

PhasmaFelis 8y ago
It doesn't, though. There is nothing fundamental to the concept of a laptop that requires lengthy, licensed repair. That's the point of the law--you're allowed to be realistic about your product's needs, you're not allowed to deliberately make it harder than it has to be, so you can corner the repair market.