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Real question: is there an alternate, well-tested Java runtime that someone would advise to use afterwards ? Sidenote: I can only imagine the guy who wrote "Ja

Real question: is there an alternate, well-tested Java runtime that someone would advise to use afterwards ? Sidenote: I can only imagine the guy who wrote "Java Deprecation" in h2 font-size 187%, jiggling inside at the moment he did. EDIT: I understand it's only a "possibility of removal", yet if I started working on a JVM-based app/product right now, I would be concerned.

masklinn 16y ago
> Real question: is there an alternate, well-tested Java runtime that someone would advise to use afterwards ? Please carefully note the wording: > This means that the Apple-produced runtime will not be maintained at the same level, and may be removed from future versions of Mac OS X. The Java runtime shipping in Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard, and Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard, will continue to be supported and maintained through the standard support cycles of those products. Java 1.6 will probably still be there in OSX 10.7. > Sidenote: I can only imagine the guy who wrote "Java Deprecation" in h2 font-size 187%, jiggling inside at the moment he did. It's a standard Apple style, so he probably didn't put the h2 187% size himself. Though he probably did giggle.
- buster 16y ago
  I think "may be removed from future versions of Mac OS X" sounds pretty much like it is very likely that it will be removed.
  - masklinn 16y ago
    I don't think so. It makes it sound like if that's ever a bother, they'll drop it. But right now, they probably have the deployment architecture so no reason to ever remove it. On the other hand, don't hold your breath for an OpenJDK release from Apple. In fact, that's very likely the purpose of the move: they're warning developers they will not port Java 7.
    - Samuel_Michon 16y ago
      "It makes it sound like if that's ever a bother, they'll drop it." Right, it's the same ambiguous phrasing that Apple uses to let iOS jailbreakers know that Apple isn't going to go out of its way to support them. If a future update breaks a jailbroken installation: too bad. Which isn't to say that Apple will actively work on making jailbreaking impossible.
      - ryanpetrich 16y ago
        Except they are actively working to make iOS jailbreaking impossible.
    - jonhendry 16y ago
      And it's a suggestion to people who rely on Java being there that they should keep a copy of the installer package handy, because it might not be included later.
mbreese 16y ago
Simple answer: No. Long answer: Who knows? Apple has always developed the Mac port of Java, with a lot of customization in the GUI (custom Swing properties, events, etc). This was historically because at the time, the Mac user base was too small for Sun to support themselves. So, Apple took over the project and has run with it ever since. They've added some good things to their JVM too, such as shared memory for libraries (I believe). However, I think that now, Apple has decided that it isn't worth it for them to support it. So the answer to your question will largely be up to Oracle. If they decide to port Swing over to the Mac, then I think there is a shot of having a good JVM for 10.7+. If not, I think that you can say goodbye to the JRE in the Mac. It isn't like the client has ever been a big focus for Oracle. To them, Java is all about the backend. They may want to work on a JVM for the Mac just to allow developers to still code on their Macs, but I'm not sure.

masklinn 16y ago

> Real question: is there an alternate, well-tested Java runtime that someone would advise to use afterwards ? Please carefully note the wording: > This means that the Apple-produced runtime will not be maintained at the same level, and may be removed from future versions of Mac OS X. The Java runtime shipping in Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard, and Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard, will continue to be supported and maintained through the standard support cycles of those products. Java 1.6 will probably still be there in OSX 10.7. > Sidenote: I can only imagine the guy who wrote "Java Deprecation" in h2 font-size 187%, jiggling inside at the moment he did. It's a standard Apple style, so he probably didn't put the h2 187% size himself. Though he probably did giggle.

buster 16y ago
I think "may be removed from future versions of Mac OS X" sounds pretty much like it is very likely that it will be removed.
- masklinn 16y ago
  I don't think so. It makes it sound like if that's ever a bother, they'll drop it. But right now, they probably have the deployment architecture so no reason to ever remove it. On the other hand, don't hold your breath for an OpenJDK release from Apple. In fact, that's very likely the purpose of the move: they're warning developers they will not port Java 7.
  - Samuel_Michon 16y ago
    "It makes it sound like if that's ever a bother, they'll drop it." Right, it's the same ambiguous phrasing that Apple uses to let iOS jailbreakers know that Apple isn't going to go out of its way to support them. If a future update breaks a jailbroken installation: too bad. Which isn't to say that Apple will actively work on making jailbreaking impossible.
    - ryanpetrich 16y ago
      Except they are actively working to make iOS jailbreaking impossible.
  - jonhendry 16y ago
    And it's a suggestion to people who rely on Java being there that they should keep a copy of the installer package handy, because it might not be included later.

mbreese 16y ago

Simple answer: No. Long answer: Who knows? Apple has always developed the Mac port of Java, with a lot of customization in the GUI (custom Swing properties, events, etc). This was historically because at the time, the Mac user base was too small for Sun to support themselves. So, Apple took over the project and has run with it ever since. They've added some good things to their JVM too, such as shared memory for libraries (I believe). However, I think that now, Apple has decided that it isn't worth it for them to support it. So the answer to your question will largely be up to Oracle. If they decide to port Swing over to the Mac, then I think there is a shot of having a good JVM for 10.7+. If not, I think that you can say goodbye to the JRE in the Mac. It isn't like the client has ever been a big focus for Oracle. To them, Java is all about the backend. They may want to work on a JVM for the Mac just to allow developers to still code on their Macs, but I'm not sure.