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This might be referring to the regular grammar of Turkish. In Turkish, if you have a plural noun in the ablative case (roughly meaning 'out from'), you show th
by 80386 8y ago
This might be referring to the regular grammar of Turkish.
In Turkish, if you have a plural noun in the ablative case (roughly meaning 'out from'), you show this by attaching the plural suffix and the ablative suffix to the noun. For example, 'ev' means 'house', '-ler' is the plural suffix, and '-den' is the ablative suffix, so 'evlerden' means 'from (the) houses'.
In Latin (and most Indo-European languages that preserve case), on the other hand, you have one marker for 'ablative plural', that's completely distinct from (most) other case-forms of the plural, and from the ablative singular. So 'domus' means 'house' (in the nominative singular -- there are no zero-marked nouns in Latin, which means that every noun has an explicit case+number marker), 'domibus' means 'from (the) houses', and 'domū' means 'from the/a house'.
This also applies to verbs. In Latin, you have one single marker on the verb that signifies tense, aspect, mood, and person. Passive verbs conjugate completely differently from active verbs, for example. In Turkish, you generally have one marker per thing signified.
(English has lost most of this inflection, but we still have -s for third-person singular present active.)
There's also a lot more irregularity in Turkish than in Latin. Latin has five declensions for nouns and four conjugations for verbs -- so 'domus' takes a completely different set of case markers from 'Rōma'. In fact, 'domus' doesn't really fit into the declension system at all -- it's entirely irregular. (Think English strong verbs.)
The thing about this is that it's actually Latin that's crosslinguistically weird here, rather than Turkish. Most languages are more like either Turkish (lots of affixes, each of which with one and only one meaning) or Chinese (not many affixes at all) than Latin (affixes which mean several different things at once). Most Indo-European languages are to some extent like Latin, but most non-Indo-European languages aren't very much like Latin.
Turkish also doesn't have grammatical gender, or any sort of noun class system at all. (Grammatical gender is one type of noun class system, common in the Indo-European languages.) But noun class systems aren't cross-linguistically uncommon.
- garmaine 8y agoUnless I’m missing something, that’s not per se what loglan/lojban sets out to achieve. Does Turkish have precise, unambiguous syntax and morphology? Meaning there is never (other than context dependent semantics) any way for one sentence to be parsed two different ways?
- wirrbel 8y agoOf course Turkish has its ambiguities and was not designed with the same ideas in mind as Lojban. But it is in many ways more precise syntactically than other languages and almost completely regular. This is also due to some "cleansing" of the language from Persian and Arabic influences in the early 20th century. Imho with languages the elephant in the room is context. I don't see how the additional rigour in syntax compared to Turkish would be scoring points for lojban, when the contextual problems that both languages face are not solved.
- garmaine 8y agoThat was my point above about semantics :)