4 ms·

I'm a developer. I just bought a 2018 MBP. I seriously thought about jumping ship to Linux. If I'd known about this, I would have.

toasterlovin 8y ago
Yeah, you folks are the ones making all the noise. Meanwhile the silent majority just doesn't care at all. I haven't performed hardware repairs on a computer in more than a decade and don't plant to start any time soon.
- tonyedgecombe 8y ago
  Most customers don't care, they don't care about repairability because modern devices are so reliable, they don't care about upgradeability because they bought the appropriate spec in the first place. Even if it does fail they don't really care about the cost of repair because they bought a premium product and their expectations are set accordingly.
  - bigbugbag 8y ago
    Actually, people do care about repairability more than you think, just look at the growing popularity of repair cafes. To me the issue is that devices are made to appear obsolete, a marketing scheme to boost profit, in a limited time frame and replaced instead of repaired not because they are reliable (for example the lawsuit for prone to breaking keys on recent macbooka[1]). People who care about upgradeability are people who know better and the vast majority does not and endure lack of performance from their badly chosen device for years due to not having enough money to replace them. Just look at the sheer quantity of people using expensive smartphones despite broken glass, damaged screens and slowly failing touch because they cannot afford the cost of repair. This alone is tell sign that the cost of repair is a serious and significant issue. [1]: http://www.businessinsider.fr/us/apple-macbook-butterfly-keyboards-class-action-lawsuit-2018-5 http://www.businessinsider.fr/us/apple-macbook-butterfly-key...
    - jen729w 8y ago
      FWIW, I upgraded a 5+ year old MacBook Air to the new MacBook Pro basically because I wanted to. I think the screen was the main driver, but really there was nothing wrong with that Air; as evidenced by the fact that a good friend is now using it as her primary computer. Planned obsolence is another meme that needs to die. Regarding the cost of screens for a phone, what, you wish they were lower? Me too! But they aren’t, if you want an original Apple screen. They cost a bunch to source ($110) [0], they cost a bunch for Apple to train up techs, and to have the systems and procedures and checklists such that every time you get an Apple replacement, it’s like new. Would everyone who dropped their phone wish for a $20 replacement? Of course. Tough luck. I’m not suggesting that non-Apple repair is different, but you have to admit that a knock-off 3rd party screen is probably not going to be as reliable. And who wears the pain and anger when that screen doesn’t work? Apple. You can’t fault them for wanting to control this stuff. If it was my company, I would. [0]: https://www.businessinsider.com.au/iphone-x-teardown-parts-cost-ihs-markit-2017-11 https://www.businessinsider.com.au/iphone-x-teardown-parts-c...
      - simion314 8y ago
        >I’m not suggesting that non-Apple repair is different, but you have to admit that a knock-off 3rd party screen is probably not going to be as reliable. And who wears the pain and anger when that screen doesn’t work? Apple. >You can’t fault them for wanting to control this stuff. If it was my company, I would. Your example with the screen would be similar to changing say a car part you are forced to go to the manufacturer to get the original part, the fun part is that the windscreen is half the price of a new car so you now start considering buying a new car or gluing your windscreen. So Apple does not sell parts, forces you to use their repair shops and tax you tons for simple repairs, PLUS they make you pay for their own faults until some class action forces them to admit the hardware faults. I never seen companies suffer PR impact because someone repaired their old phone/laptop/computer/electronic at a third party. My points stand for products that are out of warranty, if products are in warranty then the laws apply.
        natch 8y ago

toasterlovin 8y ago

Yeah, you folks are the ones making all the noise. Meanwhile the silent majority just doesn't care at all. I haven't performed hardware repairs on a computer in more than a decade and don't plant to start any time soon.

tonyedgecombe 8y ago
Most customers don't care, they don't care about repairability because modern devices are so reliable, they don't care about upgradeability because they bought the appropriate spec in the first place. Even if it does fail they don't really care about the cost of repair because they bought a premium product and their expectations are set accordingly.
- bigbugbag 8y ago
  Actually, people do care about repairability more than you think, just look at the growing popularity of repair cafes. To me the issue is that devices are made to appear obsolete, a marketing scheme to boost profit, in a limited time frame and replaced instead of repaired not because they are reliable (for example the lawsuit for prone to breaking keys on recent macbooka[1]). People who care about upgradeability are people who know better and the vast majority does not and endure lack of performance from their badly chosen device for years due to not having enough money to replace them. Just look at the sheer quantity of people using expensive smartphones despite broken glass, damaged screens and slowly failing touch because they cannot afford the cost of repair. This alone is tell sign that the cost of repair is a serious and significant issue. [1]: http://www.businessinsider.fr/us/apple-macbook-butterfly-keyboards-class-action-lawsuit-2018-5 http://www.businessinsider.fr/us/apple-macbook-butterfly-key...
  - jen729w 8y ago
    FWIW, I upgraded a 5+ year old MacBook Air to the new MacBook Pro basically because I wanted to. I think the screen was the main driver, but really there was nothing wrong with that Air; as evidenced by the fact that a good friend is now using it as her primary computer. Planned obsolence is another meme that needs to die. Regarding the cost of screens for a phone, what, you wish they were lower? Me too! But they aren’t, if you want an original Apple screen. They cost a bunch to source ($110) [0], they cost a bunch for Apple to train up techs, and to have the systems and procedures and checklists such that every time you get an Apple replacement, it’s like new. Would everyone who dropped their phone wish for a $20 replacement? Of course. Tough luck. I’m not suggesting that non-Apple repair is different, but you have to admit that a knock-off 3rd party screen is probably not going to be as reliable. And who wears the pain and anger when that screen doesn’t work? Apple. You can’t fault them for wanting to control this stuff. If it was my company, I would. [0]: https://www.businessinsider.com.au/iphone-x-teardown-parts-cost-ihs-markit-2017-11 https://www.businessinsider.com.au/iphone-x-teardown-parts-c...
    - simion314 8y ago
      >I’m not suggesting that non-Apple repair is different, but you have to admit that a knock-off 3rd party screen is probably not going to be as reliable. And who wears the pain and anger when that screen doesn’t work? Apple. >You can’t fault them for wanting to control this stuff. If it was my company, I would. Your example with the screen would be similar to changing say a car part you are forced to go to the manufacturer to get the original part, the fun part is that the windscreen is half the price of a new car so you now start considering buying a new car or gluing your windscreen. So Apple does not sell parts, forces you to use their repair shops and tax you tons for simple repairs, PLUS they make you pay for their own faults until some class action forces them to admit the hardware faults. I never seen companies suffer PR impact because someone repaired their old phone/laptop/computer/electronic at a third party. My points stand for products that are out of warranty, if products are in warranty then the laws apply.
      - natch 8y ago