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The number of users who simply want/need cheaper repairs and upgrades dwarfs those who are at risk of getting their hardware bugged by state-sponsored actors. A

by paxy 8y ago

The number of users who simply want/need cheaper repairs and upgrades dwarfs those who are at risk of getting their hardware bugged by state-sponsored actors. And considering these laptops are made in China in the first place, any assurances of security are already moot. If security was the primary concern, Apple would sell this as a separate model variant (manufactured in the USA) and charge a lot more for it.

threeseed 8y ago
I also used to believe that privacy was only for spys but I have very quickly changed my position. Gays, minorities, journalists, dissidents, whistleblowers etc are all being targeted and jailed in many countries in the world. And in China it's entire swathes of the general public. And so much of this is directly attributable to lax privacy and security. And I don't know believe that there is a huge market for cheaper repairs of Macs. Most people are still just going to local service providers who are authorised by Apple anyway. Otherwise getting hold of parts can be difficult.
- drb91 8y ago
  Why not sell to both markets?
- paxy 8y ago
  The repair market for Apple products isn't huge precisely because Apple has done everything it can to kill it.
  - paulie_a 8y ago
    The repair market for apple laptops is probably small anyways because apple is a small fish in that market. Why bother?
    - parrellel 8y ago
      Because your three thousand dollar laptop has shat the bed, and you couldn't shell out for Apple Care or they failed to help in proper corporate fashion. If they weren't actively shitting on repair companies, I'd say there'd be more of a market.
      - paulie_a 8y ago
        Apple has never been a major player regardless of this. They never will be. That goes back for decades and they barely have moved the needle. They are the artisanal version of computers.
- philliphaydon 8y ago
  In Asia you can get an iMac sad upgrade done for $10. You just supply the ssd. If you buy the disk from the shop the margin is tiny. You can get an iPhone screen repaired for peanuts. Apple quoted $190 to do it. Shop did it for $95. Speakers replaced on a MacBook Pro? $45.
  - threeseed 8y ago
    Apple is fine with owner repairability for the parts you listed. The issue is with allowing replacement of parts where you could do something that compromises security. Replacing someone's display assembly with one that disables the on light. Or swapping keyboard with one that has a key logger.
    - parrellel 8y ago
      We all absolutely believe this is their logic. Truly, utterly. It has nothing to do with ensuring product turnover whatsoever.
  - dwaite 8y ago
    On the flip side, none of those parts (the SSD, the iPhone screen, or the MacBook speaker) are the same parts as Apple uses. Third party iPhone screen replacement is generally not worth it due to shoddy warranty by the shop and noticeably worse screen quality. Where it is worth it is when you are already out of warranty and trying to extend the life of your phone. The SSD is probably closest, although Apple does have custom part #s with custom firmware.
    - philliphaydon 8y ago
      > none of those parts (the SSD, the iPhone screen, or the MacBook speaker) are the same parts as Apple uses. With the exception of the SSD. The screen and speakers etc are the same as Apple uses.
    - biktor_gj 8y ago
      Unless the alternative is discarding the hardware completely. See, it's all about pricing, not quality of the parts. Last iPhone I sent for repairs at work came back with an invoice of 340€ for a screen replacement. At work that's something we _have_ to do, we can't send the phones anywhere we want. But if it was a personal phone, if I'm out of warranty and I'm going to be billed 1/3 of the cost of the phone for a new screen, or 100€ for a refubrished part somewhere else, it would be an easy decission. Now, if that aftermarket repair was out of the question, you start wondering if it's worth to spend 1100€ for the more basic version of the phone, or you just spend 200€ on a Xiaomi and if it breaks you still can buy 4 phones more if they break. Or maybe you buy an iPhone still, but then when it breaks you just throw it away and buy an Android phone. Maybe the first time it won't happen, but after you have spent 1500€ on a phone and something else breaks(battery? lightning connector maybe?) it comes to a point where you stop throwing money into the hole. On the laptop side, I get what Apple is doing. It has their new flashy T2 chip with integrated Touch ID and they're trying to do the same thing they did with the iPhones and nobody is going to stop them (well, maybe in EU they force them to allow the sale of Apple Diagnostic software to 3rd parties or fine them) They're trying to convert their computers into big iPhones and treating everyone like a child that has to be taken by the hand and told him what to do all the time. And that is my problem with Apple. I'm not worried of somebody putting a backdoor in my laptop (and if they wanted to backdoor my laptop a year ago they only had to type 'root' [enter] [enter], no need to open the case), I'm not that interesting to anybody or any agency, but I don't like to be treated like I have no rights on the things I buy, and I don't need permission from anybody to do whatever I want with whatever I paid with my money.
- ams6110 8y ago
  Yeah but that has nothing to do with Apple specifically. If you're doing stuff that's potentially going to get you jailed, best not do it online.
toasterlovin 8y ago
Apple is shipping devices which are safe from state actors intervening when the devices are manufactured. This affects who can make repairs. They are not restricting the repairs to prevent state actors from intervening when devices are being repaired.

by paxy 8y ago

threeseed 8y ago

I also used to believe that privacy was only for spys but I have very quickly changed my position. Gays, minorities, journalists, dissidents, whistleblowers etc are all being targeted and jailed in many countries in the world. And in China it's entire swathes of the general public. And so much of this is directly attributable to lax privacy and security. And I don't know believe that there is a huge market for cheaper repairs of Macs. Most people are still just going to local service providers who are authorised by Apple anyway. Otherwise getting hold of parts can be difficult.

drb91 8y ago
Why not sell to both markets?
paxy 8y ago
The repair market for Apple products isn't huge precisely because Apple has done everything it can to kill it.
- paulie_a 8y ago
  The repair market for apple laptops is probably small anyways because apple is a small fish in that market. Why bother?
  - parrellel 8y ago
    Because your three thousand dollar laptop has shat the bed, and you couldn't shell out for Apple Care or they failed to help in proper corporate fashion. If they weren't actively shitting on repair companies, I'd say there'd be more of a market.
    - paulie_a 8y ago
      Apple has never been a major player regardless of this. They never will be. That goes back for decades and they barely have moved the needle. They are the artisanal version of computers.
philliphaydon 8y ago
In Asia you can get an iMac sad upgrade done for $10. You just supply the ssd. If you buy the disk from the shop the margin is tiny. You can get an iPhone screen repaired for peanuts. Apple quoted $190 to do it. Shop did it for $95. Speakers replaced on a MacBook Pro? $45.
- threeseed 8y ago
  Apple is fine with owner repairability for the parts you listed. The issue is with allowing replacement of parts where you could do something that compromises security. Replacing someone's display assembly with one that disables the on light. Or swapping keyboard with one that has a key logger.
  - parrellel 8y ago
    We all absolutely believe this is their logic. Truly, utterly. It has nothing to do with ensuring product turnover whatsoever.
- dwaite 8y ago
  On the flip side, none of those parts (the SSD, the iPhone screen, or the MacBook speaker) are the same parts as Apple uses. Third party iPhone screen replacement is generally not worth it due to shoddy warranty by the shop and noticeably worse screen quality. Where it is worth it is when you are already out of warranty and trying to extend the life of your phone. The SSD is probably closest, although Apple does have custom part #s with custom firmware.
  - philliphaydon 8y ago
    > none of those parts (the SSD, the iPhone screen, or the MacBook speaker) are the same parts as Apple uses. With the exception of the SSD. The screen and speakers etc are the same as Apple uses.
  - biktor_gj 8y ago
    Unless the alternative is discarding the hardware completely. See, it's all about pricing, not quality of the parts. Last iPhone I sent for repairs at work came back with an invoice of 340€ for a screen replacement. At work that's something we _have_ to do, we can't send the phones anywhere we want. But if it was a personal phone, if I'm out of warranty and I'm going to be billed 1/3 of the cost of the phone for a new screen, or 100€ for a refubrished part somewhere else, it would be an easy decission. Now, if that aftermarket repair was out of the question, you start wondering if it's worth to spend 1100€ for the more basic version of the phone, or you just spend 200€ on a Xiaomi and if it breaks you still can buy 4 phones more if they break. Or maybe you buy an iPhone still, but then when it breaks you just throw it away and buy an Android phone. Maybe the first time it won't happen, but after you have spent 1500€ on a phone and something else breaks(battery? lightning connector maybe?) it comes to a point where you stop throwing money into the hole. On the laptop side, I get what Apple is doing. It has their new flashy T2 chip with integrated Touch ID and they're trying to do the same thing they did with the iPhones and nobody is going to stop them (well, maybe in EU they force them to allow the sale of Apple Diagnostic software to 3rd parties or fine them) They're trying to convert their computers into big iPhones and treating everyone like a child that has to be taken by the hand and told him what to do all the time. And that is my problem with Apple. I'm not worried of somebody putting a backdoor in my laptop (and if they wanted to backdoor my laptop a year ago they only had to type 'root' [enter] [enter], no need to open the case), I'm not that interesting to anybody or any agency, but I don't like to be treated like I have no rights on the things I buy, and I don't need permission from anybody to do whatever I want with whatever I paid with my money.
ams6110 8y ago
Yeah but that has nothing to do with Apple specifically. If you're doing stuff that's potentially going to get you jailed, best not do it online.

toasterlovin 8y ago

Apple is shipping devices which are safe from state actors intervening when the devices are manufactured. This affects who can make repairs. They are not restricting the repairs to prevent state actors from intervening when devices are being repaired.