4 ms·

> If this were true Apple likely couldn't say it was Why not?

ceejayoz 8y ago
They're probably referring to National Security Letters, which include a gag order that prevents even disclosing the existence of the order/letter, or the investigation it's a part of. https://www.eff.org/issues/national-security-letters https://www.eff.org/issues/national-security-letters
- okket 8y ago
  If there is a gag order, how can Apple then write such a statement? AFAIK you can't legally force someone to lie. (At least not yet)
  - ceejayoz 8y ago
    If you haven't received an NSL, you can say you haven't received one. It's a bit unclear if "we can't confirm or deny having gotten one" is, in effect, disclosing that you did get one as a result. Same issue with "warrant canaries" - I wouldn't want to be the first legal test case on one. That said, I think if they'd gotten an NSL-style gag order, you'd wouldn't get this vehement a denial of the incident in question. I'm inclined to believe Apple as a result.
    - dwighttk 8y ago
      if you've gotten an NSL, can you say "we are not under any kind of gag order or other confidentiality obligations."
      - ceejayoz 8y ago
        From the FBI's (or whoever issued it) perspective, I believe they'd say you're even required to do that, as saying otherwise implies the existence of the order you're not allowed to disclose the existence of. The EFF would say requiring you to say that is a violation of the First Amendment as it's prior restraint. The SEC might say it's illegally lying to shareholders. In short: We don't really know.
        dwighttk 8y ago
        I'm pretty sure the FBI (if they even would) would only say you are required to do that when deposed, not in voluntary statements to the press...
saudioger 8y ago
1. If they say it happened, they piss of China and risk losing their supply chain while also pissing off shareholders who weren't told about it 2. If they say they don't know if it happened, stock takes a hit because they sound incompetent 3. It's possible they can't legally say it happened So what option do they have other than deny?

They're probably referring to National Security Letters, which include a gag order that prevents even disclosing the existence of the order/letter, or the investigation it's a part of. https://www.eff.org/issues/national-security-letters https://www.eff.org/issues/national-security-letters

okket 8y ago
If there is a gag order, how can Apple then write such a statement? AFAIK you can't legally force someone to lie. (At least not yet)
- ceejayoz 8y ago
  If you haven't received an NSL, you can say you haven't received one. It's a bit unclear if "we can't confirm or deny having gotten one" is, in effect, disclosing that you did get one as a result. Same issue with "warrant canaries" - I wouldn't want to be the first legal test case on one. That said, I think if they'd gotten an NSL-style gag order, you'd wouldn't get this vehement a denial of the incident in question. I'm inclined to believe Apple as a result.
  - dwighttk 8y ago
    if you've gotten an NSL, can you say "we are not under any kind of gag order or other confidentiality obligations."
    - ceejayoz 8y ago
      From the FBI's (or whoever issued it) perspective, I believe they'd say you're even required to do that, as saying otherwise implies the existence of the order you're not allowed to disclose the existence of. The EFF would say requiring you to say that is a violation of the First Amendment as it's prior restraint. The SEC might say it's illegally lying to shareholders. In short: We don't really know.
      - dwighttk 8y ago
        I'm pretty sure the FBI (if they even would) would only say you are required to do that when deposed, not in voluntary statements to the press...

saudioger 8y ago

1. If they say it happened, they piss of China and risk losing their supply chain while also pissing off shareholders who weren't told about it 2. If they say they don't know if it happened, stock takes a hit because they sound incompetent 3. It's possible they can't legally say it happened So what option do they have other than deny?