5 ms·

Yours is clearly a case of being downvoted unfairly.

zzleeper 16y ago
Indeed. I actually think that paying 3 times as much for something not so different (a nice netbook vs a mba) is hard to justify purely by the differences in quality (in software and hardware). In other words, it's because of the apple fanboys that are willing to write blank checks just to get their newest white gizmo =) And those fanboys are the same that downvoted both you and elblanco. PS: Maybe it's just me, but this fanboyism seems more proper over reddit than here.
- dagw 16y ago
  A nice netbook with even passably decent hardware (ie not single core atom processors and really low resolution screens) does not cost $333. Realistically the cheapest laptops that even begin to compare (for example an Acer timelineX 1830) are 'only' about 30-40% cheaper, and then you're giving up on Nvidia graphics and an SSD. I'm not an Apple fanboy, quite indifferent to the supposed merits of OS X and haven't owned a Mac in years. However I am in the market for a small, lightweight laptop and the 11" mba is very competitively priced compared to similar laptops from people like Lenovo, Sony and Toshiba. I'm going to reserve judgement until some more reviews come out and I get chance to see it in the flesh, but as it stands the new mba is probably going to be my first new Mac in years.
- rimantas 16y ago
  Show me something "not so different" for 3x less. Full size keyboard is a must. I my give up on trackpad there, but only because no other company has something comparable, so it would be unfair to ask for it. Even on my first gen MBA trackpad is so good that I never connect a mouse to it. I might consider replacing it with the new 11" — it would be an improvement nonetheless.
  - elblanco 16y ago
    The funny thing is, if I spent time running around finding something with comparable features at a lower price (which you're perfectly capable of doing yourself through a wide variety of search engines we have these days), somebody would probably just respond back, "well, Apple isn't about point for point features, it's about the user experience". But if I had said, "an 11in. MBA has about the same user experience as a netbook", somebody would bring out a point for point feature comparison, and tout the processor or something. Let's face it, despite unrelenting FUD from Apple regarding this exact type of ultra-portable form factor since netbooks first hit the market, there is fantastic utility in having something in your bag about the size of a hard-cover book that you can do general purpose computing on even if it doesn't offer the "full" experience that the larger products do. It's light, it fits pretty much anywhere, you can do real work on it, the battery life tends to be pretty good. In typical fashion, Apple's taken a look at the segment, and consumer demand (don't kid yourself that people haven't been pining away for a Mac in this form factor since netbooks first came out), taken their own spin on it (let's make it small and thin, with a better screen, only SSD drives, and a beefier processor!) and put out a credible, nice looking product with the typical Apple tax associated with it -- nothing terribly surprising. But now, because of the relentless slamming of the form factor called "netbooks" (they've poisoned that well), so they call it a "notebook", but it's not just a notebook, it's a special line of notebooks designed to be super-thin with a subset of the normal ports you'd find on their larger cousins. But seriously, the 11" MBA is Apple's spin on making a nice netbook. Is there something wrong with that? I'm tempted to buy one because that's precisely what it is. I almost couldn't imagine running around without my netbook these days. Having a credible Apple made option is fantastic. So here's my computing needs in this form factor. I'm an amateur travel photographer and a musician, I take lots and lots of photos and write lots and lots of music. Having something small that's a real computer with decent storage is very important to me. I don't want to drag along a bunch of external peripherals like hard drives or the like because I'm already dragging around a camera bag full of a heavy camera body and some lenses. This form factor works for me because I can actually open and use the machine in incredibly tight spaces, like coach seating on a plane and I pretty much don't even notice it in my bag when I'm running around. Plus I offload my day's shots to the computer every day and review and do some light editing back in my hotel room or on the plane (or ship or whatever). After a week or two of shooting, I easy take 50-80 GB of photos. Plus software and other junk (I like to play back a collection of old jazz 45s I have on the machine as mp3s while I edit my photos), I pretty regularly fill out the 160GB drive on my current machine. I'm pretty happy with the form factor of my 9" 2 and a half year old netbook. But I wish I had a bit more ram, a bit more resolution on the screen and a 250GB drive. So to answer your question, here's something for 2x less http://www.amazon.com/Seashell-1201PN-PU17-BK-12-1-Inch-Netbook-Black/dp/B003QR039M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1287670248&sr=1-1 http://www.amazon.com/Seashell-1201PN-PU17-BK-12-1-Inch-Netb... Here's something better for 2x less http://www.amazon.com/T101MT-EU17-BK-10-1-Inch-Convertible-Tablet-Netbook/dp/B003D1DZBY/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1287670328&sr=1-3-fkmr0 http://www.amazon.com/T101MT-EU17-BK-10-1-Inch-Convertible-T... Actually, considering I'd have to get a 120GB MBA to even realistically use it with my use-case, these are 3x less.
- elblanco 16y ago
  BTW, even though it shows only -4 on my posts, I've lost far more than 12 points of karma. PG appears to actually be counting the downvotes these days even if he's only showing -4. I think I just bled away about 25 points last night because people can't accept that an 11" notebook with an SSD and no optical drive is a netbook.
  - gjm11 16y ago
    I'll hazard a guess that quite a lot of that bleeding isn't because people can't accept that, but because you whined about losing karma.
    - elblanco 16y ago
      Oh no, I lost that karma way before I whined about it. I knew as soon as I posted that it's just a karma burning exercise. Any contrary (or slightly contrary) post in a discussion about Apple is pretty much treated like leprosy. I know that going in. I was just observing that the algorithm appears to have changed and now downvotes are all counted regardless of what the displayed score is.
      - gjm11 16y ago
        You didn't lose all of it before you whined. I know that because I downvoted your whine about being downvoted, and didn't downvote your bah-it's-just-a-netbook comments. (I have a policy of always downvoting whines about being downvoted and "I know I'll be downvoted for this ..." comments and so forth, because (1) they're boring and (2) I have a nasty suspicion that they produce net-positive results for their authors and want to make them not do so.)
        elblanco 16y ago
        So I lost 80% of it pre-whine...any other hairs you'd like to look at cutting?
  - allwein 16y ago
    Netbook generally isn't about form factor, it's about use factor. A netbook is made for lightweight browsing, emailing, IM'ing, etc. You know, stuff on the 'net. The new MBA falls into the class of devices known as ultraportables. It's a full powered machine in a very small form factor/weight factor.
- elblanco 16y ago
  I go into any discussions about Apple products here knowing that I'll burn a bunch of karma -- but I do so anyway because I like to fantasize that I'm bringing some kind of interesting discussion to the table anyway. The fundamentalism of the Apple fanboyism here on HN is quite intense and rabid compared to most places. At least that's my observation. It's pretty much impossible to have a constructively critical discussion about pretty much anything Apple does on HN. If you also notice, there's very rarely any dissenting comments either. No engagement in discussion, no debate, no back-and-forth like we'd have here on pretty much any topic. I personally think it's a disservice (and disrespectful) to Apple and to HN considering what kind of site this is. If you can't critically comment on things that a company does right and wrong, and learn from that discussion and analysis, you may as well not even participate here. It's just the worst kind of fundamentalism in action.
  - cpr 16y ago
    Oh, do you think your original comment was thoughtful and helpful? Looks like pure snark to me.
    - elblanco 16y ago
      Yes, it was sarcastic snark pointing out that all their selling now is a high priced netbook -- even after Jobs shat all over the form factor for the last year. It was the first comment here noticing that at the time.

Indeed. I actually think that paying 3 times as much for something not so different (a nice netbook vs a mba) is hard to justify purely by the differences in quality (in software and hardware). In other words, it's because of the apple fanboys that are willing to write blank checks just to get their newest white gizmo =) And those fanboys are the same that downvoted both you and elblanco. PS: Maybe it's just me, but this fanboyism seems more proper over reddit than here.

dagw 16y ago
A nice netbook with even passably decent hardware (ie not single core atom processors and really low resolution screens) does not cost $333. Realistically the cheapest laptops that even begin to compare (for example an Acer timelineX 1830) are 'only' about 30-40% cheaper, and then you're giving up on Nvidia graphics and an SSD. I'm not an Apple fanboy, quite indifferent to the supposed merits of OS X and haven't owned a Mac in years. However I am in the market for a small, lightweight laptop and the 11" mba is very competitively priced compared to similar laptops from people like Lenovo, Sony and Toshiba. I'm going to reserve judgement until some more reviews come out and I get chance to see it in the flesh, but as it stands the new mba is probably going to be my first new Mac in years.
rimantas 16y ago
Show me something "not so different" for 3x less. Full size keyboard is a must. I my give up on trackpad there, but only because no other company has something comparable, so it would be unfair to ask for it. Even on my first gen MBA trackpad is so good that I never connect a mouse to it. I might consider replacing it with the new 11" — it would be an improvement nonetheless.
- elblanco 16y ago
  The funny thing is, if I spent time running around finding something with comparable features at a lower price (which you're perfectly capable of doing yourself through a wide variety of search engines we have these days), somebody would probably just respond back, "well, Apple isn't about point for point features, it's about the user experience". But if I had said, "an 11in. MBA has about the same user experience as a netbook", somebody would bring out a point for point feature comparison, and tout the processor or something. Let's face it, despite unrelenting FUD from Apple regarding this exact type of ultra-portable form factor since netbooks first hit the market, there is fantastic utility in having something in your bag about the size of a hard-cover book that you can do general purpose computing on even if it doesn't offer the "full" experience that the larger products do. It's light, it fits pretty much anywhere, you can do real work on it, the battery life tends to be pretty good. In typical fashion, Apple's taken a look at the segment, and consumer demand (don't kid yourself that people haven't been pining away for a Mac in this form factor since netbooks first came out), taken their own spin on it (let's make it small and thin, with a better screen, only SSD drives, and a beefier processor!) and put out a credible, nice looking product with the typical Apple tax associated with it -- nothing terribly surprising. But now, because of the relentless slamming of the form factor called "netbooks" (they've poisoned that well), so they call it a "notebook", but it's not just a notebook, it's a special line of notebooks designed to be super-thin with a subset of the normal ports you'd find on their larger cousins. But seriously, the 11" MBA is Apple's spin on making a nice netbook. Is there something wrong with that? I'm tempted to buy one because that's precisely what it is. I almost couldn't imagine running around without my netbook these days. Having a credible Apple made option is fantastic. So here's my computing needs in this form factor. I'm an amateur travel photographer and a musician, I take lots and lots of photos and write lots and lots of music. Having something small that's a real computer with decent storage is very important to me. I don't want to drag along a bunch of external peripherals like hard drives or the like because I'm already dragging around a camera bag full of a heavy camera body and some lenses. This form factor works for me because I can actually open and use the machine in incredibly tight spaces, like coach seating on a plane and I pretty much don't even notice it in my bag when I'm running around. Plus I offload my day's shots to the computer every day and review and do some light editing back in my hotel room or on the plane (or ship or whatever). After a week or two of shooting, I easy take 50-80 GB of photos. Plus software and other junk (I like to play back a collection of old jazz 45s I have on the machine as mp3s while I edit my photos), I pretty regularly fill out the 160GB drive on my current machine. I'm pretty happy with the form factor of my 9" 2 and a half year old netbook. But I wish I had a bit more ram, a bit more resolution on the screen and a 250GB drive. So to answer your question, here's something for 2x less http://www.amazon.com/Seashell-1201PN-PU17-BK-12-1-Inch-Netbook-Black/dp/B003QR039M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1287670248&sr=1-1 http://www.amazon.com/Seashell-1201PN-PU17-BK-12-1-Inch-Netb... Here's something better for 2x less http://www.amazon.com/T101MT-EU17-BK-10-1-Inch-Convertible-Tablet-Netbook/dp/B003D1DZBY/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1287670328&sr=1-3-fkmr0 http://www.amazon.com/T101MT-EU17-BK-10-1-Inch-Convertible-T... Actually, considering I'd have to get a 120GB MBA to even realistically use it with my use-case, these are 3x less.
elblanco 16y ago
BTW, even though it shows only -4 on my posts, I've lost far more than 12 points of karma. PG appears to actually be counting the downvotes these days even if he's only showing -4. I think I just bled away about 25 points last night because people can't accept that an 11" notebook with an SSD and no optical drive is a netbook.
- gjm11 16y ago
  I'll hazard a guess that quite a lot of that bleeding isn't because people can't accept that, but because you whined about losing karma.
  - elblanco 16y ago
    Oh no, I lost that karma way before I whined about it. I knew as soon as I posted that it's just a karma burning exercise. Any contrary (or slightly contrary) post in a discussion about Apple is pretty much treated like leprosy. I know that going in. I was just observing that the algorithm appears to have changed and now downvotes are all counted regardless of what the displayed score is.
    - gjm11 16y ago
      You didn't lose all of it before you whined. I know that because I downvoted your whine about being downvoted, and didn't downvote your bah-it's-just-a-netbook comments. (I have a policy of always downvoting whines about being downvoted and "I know I'll be downvoted for this ..." comments and so forth, because (1) they're boring and (2) I have a nasty suspicion that they produce net-positive results for their authors and want to make them not do so.)
      - elblanco 16y ago
        So I lost 80% of it pre-whine...any other hairs you'd like to look at cutting?
- allwein 16y ago
  Netbook generally isn't about form factor, it's about use factor. A netbook is made for lightweight browsing, emailing, IM'ing, etc. You know, stuff on the 'net. The new MBA falls into the class of devices known as ultraportables. It's a full powered machine in a very small form factor/weight factor.
elblanco 16y ago
I go into any discussions about Apple products here knowing that I'll burn a bunch of karma -- but I do so anyway because I like to fantasize that I'm bringing some kind of interesting discussion to the table anyway. The fundamentalism of the Apple fanboyism here on HN is quite intense and rabid compared to most places. At least that's my observation. It's pretty much impossible to have a constructively critical discussion about pretty much anything Apple does on HN. If you also notice, there's very rarely any dissenting comments either. No engagement in discussion, no debate, no back-and-forth like we'd have here on pretty much any topic. I personally think it's a disservice (and disrespectful) to Apple and to HN considering what kind of site this is. If you can't critically comment on things that a company does right and wrong, and learn from that discussion and analysis, you may as well not even participate here. It's just the worst kind of fundamentalism in action.
- cpr 16y ago
  Oh, do you think your original comment was thoughtful and helpful? Looks like pure snark to me.
  - elblanco 16y ago
    Yes, it was sarcastic snark pointing out that all their selling now is a high priced netbook -- even after Jobs shat all over the form factor for the last year. It was the first comment here noticing that at the time.