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What about bacteria? Unfortunately weighing the value of life is hard. As cute as kittens, and spiders, daffidls and protozoa are, we aren't equal. And evolutio

What about bacteria? Unfortunately weighing the value of life is hard. As cute as kittens, and spiders, daffidls and protozoa are, we aren't equal. And evolution did not 'make humans', and we are not the intended product of the big bang. Seems the ultimate hubris to bill the total energy expended by the universe so far to the creation of us forum posting meatbags.

visarga 8y ago
There would be no forum posting meatbags if not for evolution and its enormous resource usage. While I agree that nature did not 'intend' to make humans from the beginning, we, as humans, can't just write it off. Those bacteria are an important step in our cellular apparatus, and people are comparing computers to brains (brain cells at work), here. And as long as we can't get our energy without killing other living organisms, the energy brain uses can't be compared to the energy computers use. It's physically the same, but morally not. Of course you could say computers are here because humans have killed living organisms to feed themselves, so computers partake into that, but we'd end in a loop and never reach any conclusion.
- usrusr 8y ago
  > And as long as we can't get our energy without killing other living organisms It is perfectly possible to fuel a human only from biological sources that have died a natural death. It's exactly the same as running a computer on fossil fuels, just without the millennia of waiting for sufficient accumulation that you need for building a whole industrial base in one short flash in the pan moment (compared to the millennia of accumulation). Actually, you don't even have to wait for organisms to die, you can even use fuels where the providing organisms live on, having just shed off a part they don't need anymore. No killing involved in eating an apple. And if you plant the seeds in an advantageous environment you are even taking an active role in their procreation, as the seeds that just drop into the shade of the parent tree won't thrive there.

visarga 8y ago

There would be no forum posting meatbags if not for evolution and its enormous resource usage. While I agree that nature did not 'intend' to make humans from the beginning, we, as humans, can't just write it off. Those bacteria are an important step in our cellular apparatus, and people are comparing computers to brains (brain cells at work), here. And as long as we can't get our energy without killing other living organisms, the energy brain uses can't be compared to the energy computers use. It's physically the same, but morally not. Of course you could say computers are here because humans have killed living organisms to feed themselves, so computers partake into that, but we'd end in a loop and never reach any conclusion.

usrusr 8y ago
> And as long as we can't get our energy without killing other living organisms It is perfectly possible to fuel a human only from biological sources that have died a natural death. It's exactly the same as running a computer on fossil fuels, just without the millennia of waiting for sufficient accumulation that you need for building a whole industrial base in one short flash in the pan moment (compared to the millennia of accumulation). Actually, you don't even have to wait for organisms to die, you can even use fuels where the providing organisms live on, having just shed off a part they don't need anymore. No killing involved in eating an apple. And if you plant the seeds in an advantageous environment you are even taking an active role in their procreation, as the seeds that just drop into the shade of the parent tree won't thrive there.