26 ms·

Perhaps it is necessary but not sufficient?

virgilp 8y ago
There are instances of success without perseverance. For instance, the guy who invented GANs did it in one evening, more or less on a whim. One could argue that education and probably IQ were the dominant enablers there.
- pimmen 8y ago
  Maybe he attained the skills necessary to invent GANs in one evening through years of persistent learning?
  - virgilp 8y ago
    Right but if you postulate that "perseverance" is prerequisite for "education" then why would Coolidge list it separately, as an argument that "it's not enough"? Also, there are other examples of success without perseverance. Obvious ones are inherited success: e.g. just being born as king makes one - well, a king. No perseverance necessary. FWIW, I do think it's a game of probabilities - all these traits (education, IQ, perseverance etc) increase your odds of success to certain degree - and none of them guarantee it.
    - didibus 8y ago
      Gotta define success first. Seems we're ascribing it to mean power and wealth. Which is different from invention and technological innovation, or athletic achievements, or happiness, or longevity, or health, or lived experiences, or total percentage of time spent laughing, or comfort, or number of children, number of romances, sexual prowess, etc. I feel our culture currently holds a strange definition of success, that of wealth mostly. So in that sense, ya, IQ might not matter that much.
      - virgilp 8y ago
        Well, if you want to be very precise about it, and start excluding dictionary definitions ([1] "success = the attainment of wealth, position, honors, or the like.") - then I'd argue it's more important to define "perseverance". Do we define "perseverance" as "keep doing something for a (somewhat longer) while"? If yes, it's absolutely required. Do we define it to require "in spite of difficulties, obstacles, or discouragement."? Then, it's far less obvious. Sure, there are always some obstacles... but in my experience, perseverance is more often caused by success, than the other way around. It builds up - you have some success, do the thing some more, have more success, do it even more, and so on until you're really, really good at it - and what looks from outside as excruciating effort & grit is in fact a work of love and passion, sometimes even a way to relax. You don't grit your teeth & keep doing a PhD that you hate until you discover GANs; you simply do the thing that you love until you reach a level of expertise where discovering GANs is inevitable. I think those who do their PhDs with pure grit, despite disliking the domain, will be far less likely to produce world-changing innovations. [1] https://www.dictionary.com/browse/success https://www.dictionary.com/browse/success
- petercooper 8y ago
  That guy has a B.S., M.S. and a Ph.D and works for Google. It's just a hunch, but I suspect he is very perseverant. Indeed, I'm not sure it's possible to even complete a Ph.D without being off the top of the bell curve on that trait which is why they're so revered.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- melling 8y ago
  “It’s you — Picasso, the great artist! Oh, you must sketch my portrait! I insist.” So Picasso agreed to sketch her. After studying her for a moment, he used a single pencil stroke to create her portrait. He handed the women his work of art. “It’s perfect!” she gushed. “You managed to capture my essence with one stroke, in one moment. Thank you! How much do I owe you?” “Five thousand dollars,” the artist replied. “But, what?” the woman sputtered. “How could you want so much money for this picture? It only took you a second to draw it!” To which Picasso responded, “Madame, it took me my entire life.”

There are instances of success without perseverance. For instance, the guy who invented GANs did it in one evening, more or less on a whim. One could argue that education and probably IQ were the dominant enablers there.

pimmen 8y ago
Maybe he attained the skills necessary to invent GANs in one evening through years of persistent learning?
- virgilp 8y ago
  Right but if you postulate that "perseverance" is prerequisite for "education" then why would Coolidge list it separately, as an argument that "it's not enough"? Also, there are other examples of success without perseverance. Obvious ones are inherited success: e.g. just being born as king makes one - well, a king. No perseverance necessary. FWIW, I do think it's a game of probabilities - all these traits (education, IQ, perseverance etc) increase your odds of success to certain degree - and none of them guarantee it.
  - didibus 8y ago
    Gotta define success first. Seems we're ascribing it to mean power and wealth. Which is different from invention and technological innovation, or athletic achievements, or happiness, or longevity, or health, or lived experiences, or total percentage of time spent laughing, or comfort, or number of children, number of romances, sexual prowess, etc. I feel our culture currently holds a strange definition of success, that of wealth mostly. So in that sense, ya, IQ might not matter that much.
    - virgilp 8y ago
      Well, if you want to be very precise about it, and start excluding dictionary definitions ([1] "success = the attainment of wealth, position, honors, or the like.") - then I'd argue it's more important to define "perseverance". Do we define "perseverance" as "keep doing something for a (somewhat longer) while"? If yes, it's absolutely required. Do we define it to require "in spite of difficulties, obstacles, or discouragement."? Then, it's far less obvious. Sure, there are always some obstacles... but in my experience, perseverance is more often caused by success, than the other way around. It builds up - you have some success, do the thing some more, have more success, do it even more, and so on until you're really, really good at it - and what looks from outside as excruciating effort & grit is in fact a work of love and passion, sometimes even a way to relax. You don't grit your teeth & keep doing a PhD that you hate until you discover GANs; you simply do the thing that you love until you reach a level of expertise where discovering GANs is inevitable. I think those who do their PhDs with pure grit, despite disliking the domain, will be far less likely to produce world-changing innovations. [1] https://www.dictionary.com/browse/success https://www.dictionary.com/browse/success
petercooper 8y ago
That guy has a B.S., M.S. and a Ph.D and works for Google. It's just a hunch, but I suspect he is very perseverant. Indeed, I'm not sure it's possible to even complete a Ph.D without being off the top of the bell curve on that trait which is why they're so revered.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
melling 8y ago
“It’s you — Picasso, the great artist! Oh, you must sketch my portrait! I insist.” So Picasso agreed to sketch her. After studying her for a moment, he used a single pencil stroke to create her portrait. He handed the women his work of art. “It’s perfect!” she gushed. “You managed to capture my essence with one stroke, in one moment. Thank you! How much do I owe you?” “Five thousand dollars,” the artist replied. “But, what?” the woman sputtered. “How could you want so much money for this picture? It only took you a second to draw it!” To which Picasso responded, “Madame, it took me my entire life.”