4 ms·

Every single day he was on duty he took out his loaded firearm, pointed it directly in someones face and had his finger on the trigger, for fear they might pull

Every single day he was on duty he took out his loaded firearm, pointed it directly in someones face and had his finger on the trigger, for fear they might pull a gun or do something else to harm him. I understand (although do not have evidence to hand) a number of LAPD beat cops manage to go quite a long time between instances of having to draw a firearm and point it at someone's face. If this officer was doing it every day, was he simply the world's unluckiest police officer, or was he the kind of police officer who makes situations more violent rather than less? I understand that typical US police training (if there is such a think in a nation with such a large range of police forces) does contain rather less "how to make situations less violent" training than their counterparts in other countries.

jki275 8y ago
That comment is certainly hyperbole, but there are neighborhoods in any city that are far more violent by nature than others, and it stands to reason that one may have to respond that way more often in those areas. Police in the US are trained heavily in de-escalation, but sometimes overwhelming show of force lets everybody go home alive (yes, the offender as well), rather than allowing a situation to escalate to a point where deadly force has to be used.
- EliRivers 8y ago
  I understand that deescalation training is not common [0]. [0] https://www.apmreports.org/story/2017/05/05/police-de-escalation-training https://www.apmreports.org/story/2017/05/05/police-de-escala...
- nicoburns 8y ago
  > sometimes overwhelming show of force lets everybody go home alive (yes, the offender as well), rather than allowing a situation to escalate to a point where deadly force has to be used. Maybe sometimes, but I suspect in the vast majority of cases, a show of force is what causes the situation to escalate to the point where deadly force has to be used. Who are you more likely to shoot? A policeman pointing a loaded gun at you, or one with gun holstered talking calmly (but maybe firmly) to you. Pulling a gun out automatically leads to a "shoot first or risk getting shot" situation.
  - jki275 8y ago
    Contrary to popular belief, westerns are not documentaries, and it's not common for people who are already under the gun to try to quick-draw and outshoot someone.
grecy 8y ago
> I understand (although do not have evidence to hand) a number of LAPD beat cops manage to go quite a long time between instances of having to draw a firearm and point it at someone's face You're absolutely going to need a citation for that. I don't believe US cops have to even report instances of upholstering their sidearm - It's such a common occurrence. Discharging a firearm is a different story. Of course, my friend was a cop in the late 70s, 80s and 90s, and did all kinds of things that would land him in very deep water today. i.e. to disperse an angry crowd you just rack a round in a shotgun. He said it works extremely well without even firing it.
- EliRivers 8y ago
  Drawing firearms doesn't seem to be habitually recorded in the statistics, and even if it were, I suspect that thence pointing it at someone's face would still not be recorded. Here are a number of LEOs discussing how frequently they draw their weapon, but again nothing about actually pointing it at someone: https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=432377 https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=432377 Other such discussion seem to indicate similarly; that even drawing is not common. On such forums, detectives seem to indicate that they have even less need to draw firearms. The 2016 LAPD review use-of-force review indicates that in 2016 there were 40 officer-involved-shooting. I understand the LAPD employs on the order of 9000 to 10000 police officers, so on the order of 95% or more of those police officers didn't shoot at anyone. However, it looks like they don't record drawing a firearm or pointing firearms at people's faces. I suspect citations for your hypothesis - that LAPD beat cops draw and point their weapons every day - will be similarly hard to come by, but if you have some, please do present them.
  - grecy 8y ago
    Why would a cop drawn their weapon and then not point it at someone? That doesn't make any sense. You're right I don't have hard citations, only first-hand evidence from someone with 30 years actually doing it.
    - AcerbicZero 8y ago

jki275 8y ago

That comment is certainly hyperbole, but there are neighborhoods in any city that are far more violent by nature than others, and it stands to reason that one may have to respond that way more often in those areas. Police in the US are trained heavily in de-escalation, but sometimes overwhelming show of force lets everybody go home alive (yes, the offender as well), rather than allowing a situation to escalate to a point where deadly force has to be used.

EliRivers 8y ago
I understand that deescalation training is not common [0]. [0] https://www.apmreports.org/story/2017/05/05/police-de-escalation-training https://www.apmreports.org/story/2017/05/05/police-de-escala...
nicoburns 8y ago
> sometimes overwhelming show of force lets everybody go home alive (yes, the offender as well), rather than allowing a situation to escalate to a point where deadly force has to be used. Maybe sometimes, but I suspect in the vast majority of cases, a show of force is what causes the situation to escalate to the point where deadly force has to be used. Who are you more likely to shoot? A policeman pointing a loaded gun at you, or one with gun holstered talking calmly (but maybe firmly) to you. Pulling a gun out automatically leads to a "shoot first or risk getting shot" situation.
- jki275 8y ago
  Contrary to popular belief, westerns are not documentaries, and it's not common for people who are already under the gun to try to quick-draw and outshoot someone.

grecy 8y ago

> I understand (although do not have evidence to hand) a number of LAPD beat cops manage to go quite a long time between instances of having to draw a firearm and point it at someone's face You're absolutely going to need a citation for that. I don't believe US cops have to even report instances of upholstering their sidearm - It's such a common occurrence. Discharging a firearm is a different story. Of course, my friend was a cop in the late 70s, 80s and 90s, and did all kinds of things that would land him in very deep water today. i.e. to disperse an angry crowd you just rack a round in a shotgun. He said it works extremely well without even firing it.

EliRivers 8y ago
Drawing firearms doesn't seem to be habitually recorded in the statistics, and even if it were, I suspect that thence pointing it at someone's face would still not be recorded. Here are a number of LEOs discussing how frequently they draw their weapon, but again nothing about actually pointing it at someone: https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=432377 https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=432377 Other such discussion seem to indicate similarly; that even drawing is not common. On such forums, detectives seem to indicate that they have even less need to draw firearms. The 2016 LAPD review use-of-force review indicates that in 2016 there were 40 officer-involved-shooting. I understand the LAPD employs on the order of 9000 to 10000 police officers, so on the order of 95% or more of those police officers didn't shoot at anyone. However, it looks like they don't record drawing a firearm or pointing firearms at people's faces. I suspect citations for your hypothesis - that LAPD beat cops draw and point their weapons every day - will be similarly hard to come by, but if you have some, please do present them.
- grecy 8y ago
  Why would a cop drawn their weapon and then not point it at someone? That doesn't make any sense. You're right I don't have hard citations, only first-hand evidence from someone with 30 years actually doing it.
  - AcerbicZero 8y ago