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Both Audi & Jaguar are looking on track to, on their first attempts, quite soundly beat Tesla at the electric SUV game. Similar price, similar range, and vastly

Both Audi & Jaguar are looking on track to, on their first attempts, quite soundly beat Tesla at the electric SUV game. Similar price, similar range, and vastly better quality. And really if you think about it that shouldn't be surprising. The big car companies today don't need a miracle at all. They are in a pretty good spot. They know how to do all the really hard stuff about building a car (the actual manufacturing & quality control stuff - the things Tesla is really bad at and struggling hard to figure out). They just need to do the easy part of putting in an EV powertrain. And they are already used to dealing with multiple powertrains for the same car, even. Tesla took the risk to prove it out, but there's no reason to believe the big companies will be unable to change course on this. It's not at all like the pre-iPhone vs. post-iPhone where the entire UX interaction across the entire platform changed. This is all things considered a pretty small part of the car that's changed, and in pretty straightforward ways.

jungturk 8y ago
I wonder if they're behind the curve when it comes to the software that's become so central to the Tesla experience.
- SEJeff 8y ago
  Dealer network contractually prevents them from doing OTA updates for most things. I was told this at a Ford dealership (I've got a Fiesta and a Model 3) when I asked they they couldn't OTA update the old Sync voice nav vs putting in a USB drive to update some stuff with it recently.
illumin8 8y ago
Sorry, I hate to break it to you, but Audi's E-tron is basically being used as an example of how far behind Tesla the rest of the industry is when it comes to efficiency and battery technology: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/18/ubs-says-audis-disappointing-electric-car-launch-is-a-big-win-for-tesla.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/18/ubs-says-audis-disappointing...
- kllrnohj 8y ago
  $75k etron, est range 249 miles ( https://www.caranddriver.com/news/2019-audi-e-tron-quattro-electric-crossover-ev-photos-info https://www.caranddriver.com/news/2019-audi-e-tron-quattro-e... ) $80k model x, est range 237 miles. Tesla may have better battery tech at the end of the day, but it's very obviously not so far ahead. We're talking 10-20% differences at comparable price points even if Audi comes in under estimates. And critically it's highly likely the Audi will have the build & interior quality of an $80k car, unlike the model x. Time will tell if people will ignore luxury to get a better 0-60 or not. Some certainly will, but most historically don't.
mjamesaustin 8y ago
To say Audi & Jaguar are on track to soundly beat Tesla is pretty presumptuous. Tesla has a cost and experience advantage on batteries and electric powertrains. It becomes clear when you compare the stats of these competitors and realize they require 90kwh and 95kwh batteries to achieve the same range as a 75 kwh Model X. That's not to mention the elephant in the room, which is fast charging. Tesla's supercharger network is leaps and bounds ahead of anyone else. I'm hopeful Tesla will face some good competition from traditional automakers, but it's silly to act as if they've already been beat.
- kllrnohj 8y ago
  Yes, but it's very critical to remember that Tesla only has that electric powertrain. The rest of the car is pretty much a joke. The build quality of the $100k P100D Model S is worse than what you'd find on a $20k Civic. The interior is poor. Words like "minimalist" are often used to try and make it sound nicer than it is - it's cheap, low quality, and missing loads of features for its price bracket. General quality control is poor. The Model S has a currently unique powertrain, but that's basically the only thing it has. Do you really think that can continue to be sufficient to move vehicles when competitors have a powertrain that's 80% the same as Tesla's, but an interior & build quality that's 10x Tesla's?
Latteland 8y ago
It should be that Audi and Jaguar can make a nicer interior. But their dealers hate electric cars, because there's no maintenance. Tesla's biggest advantage is their worldwide network of charging stations that is available to everyone. They also have billions of miles of ev driving experience, input into the autopilot program. The real engineering advantage tesla has is their proven battery heating and cooling technology - none of the other companies have that, and the recent cars have adopted some of tesla's ideas about heating and cooling but they don't have experience. Finally, don't forget that there's a world wide shortage of electric car batteries. that's why tesla had to build the irritatingly named giga factory, because without it they couldn't build a lot of evs. and other companies can't either, without new battery production coming online. Audi announced they wouldn't keep the audi ev at dealers, it's special order. I don't know if this is because dealers didn't want it or they didn't want to train them or what. gm dealers are said to not be enthusiastic about the bolt.

jungturk 8y ago

I wonder if they're behind the curve when it comes to the software that's become so central to the Tesla experience.

SEJeff 8y ago
Dealer network contractually prevents them from doing OTA updates for most things. I was told this at a Ford dealership (I've got a Fiesta and a Model 3) when I asked they they couldn't OTA update the old Sync voice nav vs putting in a USB drive to update some stuff with it recently.

illumin8 8y ago

Sorry, I hate to break it to you, but Audi's E-tron is basically being used as an example of how far behind Tesla the rest of the industry is when it comes to efficiency and battery technology: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/18/ubs-says-audis-disappointing-electric-car-launch-is-a-big-win-for-tesla.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/18/ubs-says-audis-disappointing...

kllrnohj 8y ago
$75k etron, est range 249 miles ( https://www.caranddriver.com/news/2019-audi-e-tron-quattro-electric-crossover-ev-photos-info https://www.caranddriver.com/news/2019-audi-e-tron-quattro-e... ) $80k model x, est range 237 miles. Tesla may have better battery tech at the end of the day, but it's very obviously not so far ahead. We're talking 10-20% differences at comparable price points even if Audi comes in under estimates. And critically it's highly likely the Audi will have the build & interior quality of an $80k car, unlike the model x. Time will tell if people will ignore luxury to get a better 0-60 or not. Some certainly will, but most historically don't.

mjamesaustin 8y ago

To say Audi & Jaguar are on track to soundly beat Tesla is pretty presumptuous. Tesla has a cost and experience advantage on batteries and electric powertrains. It becomes clear when you compare the stats of these competitors and realize they require 90kwh and 95kwh batteries to achieve the same range as a 75 kwh Model X. That's not to mention the elephant in the room, which is fast charging. Tesla's supercharger network is leaps and bounds ahead of anyone else. I'm hopeful Tesla will face some good competition from traditional automakers, but it's silly to act as if they've already been beat.

kllrnohj 8y ago
Yes, but it's very critical to remember that Tesla only has that electric powertrain. The rest of the car is pretty much a joke. The build quality of the $100k P100D Model S is worse than what you'd find on a $20k Civic. The interior is poor. Words like "minimalist" are often used to try and make it sound nicer than it is - it's cheap, low quality, and missing loads of features for its price bracket. General quality control is poor. The Model S has a currently unique powertrain, but that's basically the only thing it has. Do you really think that can continue to be sufficient to move vehicles when competitors have a powertrain that's 80% the same as Tesla's, but an interior & build quality that's 10x Tesla's?

Latteland 8y ago

It should be that Audi and Jaguar can make a nicer interior. But their dealers hate electric cars, because there's no maintenance. Tesla's biggest advantage is their worldwide network of charging stations that is available to everyone. They also have billions of miles of ev driving experience, input into the autopilot program. The real engineering advantage tesla has is their proven battery heating and cooling technology - none of the other companies have that, and the recent cars have adopted some of tesla's ideas about heating and cooling but they don't have experience. Finally, don't forget that there's a world wide shortage of electric car batteries. that's why tesla had to build the irritatingly named giga factory, because without it they couldn't build a lot of evs. and other companies can't either, without new battery production coming online. Audi announced they wouldn't keep the audi ev at dealers, it's special order. I don't know if this is because dealers didn't want it or they didn't want to train them or what. gm dealers are said to not be enthusiastic about the bolt.