4 ms·

Before you abandon the idea of unions, you should keep in mind that the situation in regards to unions in the US is fucked up in a rather unique way. So a much

by DasIch 8y ago

Before you abandon the idea of unions, you should keep in mind that the situation in regards to unions in the US is fucked up in a rather unique way. So a much less radical approach of simply copying what other countries do, should work just fine much more reliably.

rm_-rf_slash 8y ago
The relationship between labor and management/capital has historically been adversarial in the United States. We can’t just adopt the laws from countries with good labor relations like Germany or Denmark and expect the culture to follow.
- chottocharaii 8y ago
  Try Australia.
- int_19h 8y ago
  The relationship between labor and management/capital has historically been adversarial in all countries, in many cases much more so than US. I mean, US didn't have an attempted socialist revolution, for one - several European countries did. And yet they developed a working system involving unions out of it all. There's no reason why we can't, too.
  - lovich 8y ago
    America didn't get their socialist revolution because the companies and government brutally suppressed every rebellion and even basic strikes. America as a government and capitalist society has been actively against unions since forever, and in the past few decades they've convinced workers to be against unionizing as well -https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Corn_Rebellion https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Corn_Rebellion This one on Blair mountain was big -https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain Veterans wanting to get paid in less than 20 years of waiting, so why not beat and shoot them? -https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army Just the history of union busting here -https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_union_busting_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_union_busting_in_...
    - int_19h 8y ago
      My point is precisely that there were numerous violently suppressed socialist revolutions in Europe, on a scale far greater than anything that had ever happened in the USA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutions_of_1917%E2%80%931923#Communist_revolutions_that_started_1917%E2%80%9324 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutions_of_1917%E2%80%9319... Any government is going to violently suppress a revolution (or cease to exist immediately). The difference is that there wasn't even an attempt at a socialist revolution in US. The labor movement here was mostly focused on labor rights, not on the broader politics of class struggle. Radical socialists and communists within the movement were never numerous enough to organize a revolution.
      - lovich 8y ago
        My understanding was that America got the heads up on what would happen based on Europe's experience and was thus quicker to crack down on any sort of worker movement

by DasIch 8y ago

rm_-rf_slash 8y ago

The relationship between labor and management/capital has historically been adversarial in the United States. We can’t just adopt the laws from countries with good labor relations like Germany or Denmark and expect the culture to follow.

chottocharaii 8y ago
Try Australia.
int_19h 8y ago
The relationship between labor and management/capital has historically been adversarial in all countries, in many cases much more so than US. I mean, US didn't have an attempted socialist revolution, for one - several European countries did. And yet they developed a working system involving unions out of it all. There's no reason why we can't, too.
- lovich 8y ago
  America didn't get their socialist revolution because the companies and government brutally suppressed every rebellion and even basic strikes. America as a government and capitalist society has been actively against unions since forever, and in the past few decades they've convinced workers to be against unionizing as well -https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Corn_Rebellion https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Corn_Rebellion This one on Blair mountain was big -https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain Veterans wanting to get paid in less than 20 years of waiting, so why not beat and shoot them? -https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army Just the history of union busting here -https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_union_busting_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_union_busting_in_...
  - int_19h 8y ago
    My point is precisely that there were numerous violently suppressed socialist revolutions in Europe, on a scale far greater than anything that had ever happened in the USA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutions_of_1917%E2%80%931923#Communist_revolutions_that_started_1917%E2%80%9324 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutions_of_1917%E2%80%9319... Any government is going to violently suppress a revolution (or cease to exist immediately). The difference is that there wasn't even an attempt at a socialist revolution in US. The labor movement here was mostly focused on labor rights, not on the broader politics of class struggle. Radical socialists and communists within the movement were never numerous enough to organize a revolution.
    - lovich 8y ago
      My understanding was that America got the heads up on what would happen based on Europe's experience and was thus quicker to crack down on any sort of worker movement