4 ms·

Does business school teach people how to assert power before they're ready?

23 points by a4agarwal 16y ago

johngalt 16y ago
Does tech school teach people to assert competence before they're ready?
- a4agarwal 16y ago
  you can't compare technical skills with teaching attitude
hoop 16y ago
"""Business school should stick to teaching the mechanics of running a successful business as much as possible, and leave the psychology out of it.""" This is an interesting thought that I don't agree with. Management is simply the art and science of achieving results through people. If you broke management down into its major components, I believe that you would find that management is mostly rooted in psychology with a sliver of economics. If you leave the psychology out of it, there isn't much left. (X-posted to blog comments)
- fleitz 16y ago
  Agreed, if you want to know how things really work one of the best articles I've ever read on the subject is by Venkat from ribbonfarm.com. Read the Gervais Principle it's long but well worth it, lots of fresh thinking, and if you watch the office you'll see it in a whole new light. Part 1 http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/ http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-o... Part 2 http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/11/11/the-gervais-principle-ii-posturetalk-powertalk-babytalk-and-gametalk/ http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/11/11/the-gervais-principle-i... Part 3 http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2010/04/14/the-gervais-principle-iii-the-curse-of-development/ http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2010/04/14/the-gervais-principle-i... Part 4 http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2010/10/14/the-gervais-principle-iv-wonderful-human-beings/ http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2010/10/14/the-gervais-principle-i...
  - gregburek 16y ago
    I loved this series so much. It is a nice companion to this guide on creating a sick system: http://issendai.livejournal.com/572510.html http://issendai.livejournal.com/572510.html
  - hoop 16y ago
    I'll read them all over the next couple of hours. (I am sick in bed anyhow :)) Readings that I recommend are "The Great Jackass Fallacy" (I got my copy <$10 on Amazon) and "Drive" by Daniel Pink. There's also a Youtube/TED video that sums up "Drive" very well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrkrvAUbU9Y http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrkrvAUbU9Y
Alex3917 16y ago
"Business school should stick to teaching the mechanics of running a successful business as much as possible, and leave the psychology out of it." I disagree. At least 85% of success is knowing how to put on a good show. Knowing what behaviors/signals/designs will get what reactions is key, and it's something that can really only be learned from a competent teacher.
sachinag 16y ago
Sachin's conflating the teaching of techniques he finds distateful with the general notion of teaching management skills in general. Trying to teach the mechanics of running a business without going into psychology is like trying to teach the piano with only a book and a metronome. I cannot tell you how many times an MBA2 student (I'm currently an MBA1 at Michigan, which is awesome and amazing) has made a comment like "I was in [x] situation that was eerily just like a roleplay situation in my MO class." The mechanics of running a business are exactly the sort of thing you can learn in a book (or a blog); dealing with people to get optimal outcomes takes a classroom environment with an excellent teacher and groups of other students. You have to bang the keys to really learn how to be an effective manager of - and hopefully, leader of - people.
- jallmann 16y ago
  Weird, I always thought you were OP. Guess I should click those usernames more often.
  - sachinag 16y ago
    That pisses off the other Sachin a lot more than it bothers me. :)
gregburek 16y ago
In my experience with business school and engineering school, EVERYONE asserts power before they earn it. Others may call it "fake it till you make it", but I would say that over-confidence and power games are rewarded in social constructs which make me (and other techies I know) very uncomfortable.

23 points by a4agarwal 16y ago

johngalt 16y ago

Does tech school teach people to assert competence before they're ready?

a4agarwal 16y ago
you can't compare technical skills with teaching attitude

hoop 16y ago

"""Business school should stick to teaching the mechanics of running a successful business as much as possible, and leave the psychology out of it.""" This is an interesting thought that I don't agree with. Management is simply the art and science of achieving results through people. If you broke management down into its major components, I believe that you would find that management is mostly rooted in psychology with a sliver of economics. If you leave the psychology out of it, there isn't much left. (X-posted to blog comments)

fleitz 16y ago
Agreed, if you want to know how things really work one of the best articles I've ever read on the subject is by Venkat from ribbonfarm.com. Read the Gervais Principle it's long but well worth it, lots of fresh thinking, and if you watch the office you'll see it in a whole new light. Part 1 http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/ http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-o... Part 2 http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/11/11/the-gervais-principle-ii-posturetalk-powertalk-babytalk-and-gametalk/ http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/11/11/the-gervais-principle-i... Part 3 http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2010/04/14/the-gervais-principle-iii-the-curse-of-development/ http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2010/04/14/the-gervais-principle-i... Part 4 http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2010/10/14/the-gervais-principle-iv-wonderful-human-beings/ http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2010/10/14/the-gervais-principle-i...
- gregburek 16y ago
  I loved this series so much. It is a nice companion to this guide on creating a sick system: http://issendai.livejournal.com/572510.html http://issendai.livejournal.com/572510.html
- hoop 16y ago
  I'll read them all over the next couple of hours. (I am sick in bed anyhow :)) Readings that I recommend are "The Great Jackass Fallacy" (I got my copy <$10 on Amazon) and "Drive" by Daniel Pink. There's also a Youtube/TED video that sums up "Drive" very well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrkrvAUbU9Y http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrkrvAUbU9Y

Alex3917 16y ago

"Business school should stick to teaching the mechanics of running a successful business as much as possible, and leave the psychology out of it." I disagree. At least 85% of success is knowing how to put on a good show. Knowing what behaviors/signals/designs will get what reactions is key, and it's something that can really only be learned from a competent teacher.

sachinag 16y ago

Sachin's conflating the teaching of techniques he finds distateful with the general notion of teaching management skills in general. Trying to teach the mechanics of running a business without going into psychology is like trying to teach the piano with only a book and a metronome. I cannot tell you how many times an MBA2 student (I'm currently an MBA1 at Michigan, which is awesome and amazing) has made a comment like "I was in [x] situation that was eerily just like a roleplay situation in my MO class." The mechanics of running a business are exactly the sort of thing you can learn in a book (or a blog); dealing with people to get optimal outcomes takes a classroom environment with an excellent teacher and groups of other students. You have to bang the keys to really learn how to be an effective manager of - and hopefully, leader of - people.

jallmann 16y ago
Weird, I always thought you were OP. Guess I should click those usernames more often.
- sachinag 16y ago
  That pisses off the other Sachin a lot more than it bothers me. :)

gregburek 16y ago

In my experience with business school and engineering school, EVERYONE asserts power before they earn it. Others may call it "fake it till you make it", but I would say that over-confidence and power games are rewarded in social constructs which make me (and other techies I know) very uncomfortable.