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Re: "The supposed influence of Putin is really poorly manifested in US policy, which remains as hostile as ever (Mattis is going around talking about the need t

by loceng 8y ago

Re: "The supposed influence of Putin is really poorly manifested in US policy, which remains as hostile as ever (Mattis is going around talking about the need to prepare for military conflict with Russia and China, for Heaven's sake)." I understood your comment as you either believing or not believing, doubting, that Putin and their methods aren't manifested/taken into account/written into US policy to counteract said influence? I wasn't sure if you thought it was trivial that Mattis is wanting to prepare for possible conflict with Russia and China. I expanded my comment to include Facebook and other social media as a means to manipulating a population in what hope to be democratic elections.

emodendroket 8y ago
In other words, I think the panic about Putin manipulating the election is hogwash, visible in part by the fact that American policy is, if anything, more hostile to Russia than before. I honestly think the reason this stuff has so much purchase is people don't want to accept that Trump could possibly be a homegrown phenomenon, because they don't like what it would say about their neighbors (plus it lets Democratic leadership off the hook for botching what really should have been a layup -- Trump was a historically unpopular candidate).
- loceng 8y ago
  There's certainly a component of homegrown to it - it wouldn't be possible otherwise to stir people's emotions up with propaganda otherwise. Are you aware of the growing list of evidence that the Mueller investigation has already uncovered, along with the people close to Trump have already been charged with crimes, etc? Likewise regarding Cambridge Analytica and what services they offered to people, to get governments/politicians into power - including admitting on video that they're willing to lie? From my view point, Bernie Sanders would have gotten more support and votes than Hilary - who to myself, felt like more of the same. There are many systems that have issues with how they are designed to function or function. We don't and perhaps can't ever know how much influence Putin (or other less obvious bad actors) had on the elections - however, I hope you'd agree that we should try our best to prevent that kind of manipulation from happening? American policy is more hostile to Russia, as is more of the world's, in part as economic punishment for bad behaviour, no? The parts of the world and society that behave well then work together.
  - emodendroket 8y ago
    What part of what the Mueller investigations turned up do you think proves there's any meat to allegations to Russian collusion?

by loceng 8y ago

emodendroket 8y ago

In other words, I think the panic about Putin manipulating the election is hogwash, visible in part by the fact that American policy is, if anything, more hostile to Russia than before. I honestly think the reason this stuff has so much purchase is people don't want to accept that Trump could possibly be a homegrown phenomenon, because they don't like what it would say about their neighbors (plus it lets Democratic leadership off the hook for botching what really should have been a layup -- Trump was a historically unpopular candidate).

loceng 8y ago
There's certainly a component of homegrown to it - it wouldn't be possible otherwise to stir people's emotions up with propaganda otherwise. Are you aware of the growing list of evidence that the Mueller investigation has already uncovered, along with the people close to Trump have already been charged with crimes, etc? Likewise regarding Cambridge Analytica and what services they offered to people, to get governments/politicians into power - including admitting on video that they're willing to lie? From my view point, Bernie Sanders would have gotten more support and votes than Hilary - who to myself, felt like more of the same. There are many systems that have issues with how they are designed to function or function. We don't and perhaps can't ever know how much influence Putin (or other less obvious bad actors) had on the elections - however, I hope you'd agree that we should try our best to prevent that kind of manipulation from happening? American policy is more hostile to Russia, as is more of the world's, in part as economic punishment for bad behaviour, no? The parts of the world and society that behave well then work together.
- emodendroket 8y ago
  What part of what the Mueller investigations turned up do you think proves there's any meat to allegations to Russian collusion?