5 ms·

> I don't like seeing groups shoehorn welfare into other areas. If you've got an income (or cash welfare) problem, fix that. I'd prefer a better solution, but

> I don't like seeing groups shoehorn welfare into other areas. If you've got an income (or cash welfare) problem, fix that. I'd prefer a better solution, but when one isn't available (and likely not forthcoming), needs of real people outweigh my economic principles: These people need food. It's the same in engineering: As much as we would wish otherwise, sometimes the 'right' solution isn't available and we need to deliver, so we provide an imperfect solution that works.

gowld 8y ago
You aren't disagreeing. People need food, so fund a food bank. Don't create absurdly contorted markets to preserve unnecessary waste streams to be reprurposed for food banks.
- ItsMe000001 8y ago
  In the same line and as an anecdotal aside, here in Bavaria we are soon going to have state-wide elections (i.e. for Bavaria). One party that is known to be a kind of comedic joke party but nevertheless actually managed to get someone elected for EU parliament put up posters all over town that are not all that funny down deep: For background, here in Germany quite a few retirees walk around town and collect deposit bottles out of trash bins, to make a little bit of money on top of their meager pensions. The poster ad suggests as election slogan of "Die Partei" ("The Party") to increase the per-bottle deposit in order to decrease poverty, so that retirees get more money from rummaging in trash bins. The poster: https://www.wuv.de/var/wuv/storage/images/media/bilder/die_partei_maxi_str/9009688-1-ger-DE/die_partei_maxi_str.jpg https://www.wuv.de/var/wuv/storage/images/media/bilder/die_p... I think that's a similar variant of the twisted logic that you call out, but while it probably isn't intentional in the example discussed here (looks more like an emergent property nobody planned for) they use it deliberately to make a point, to make people think.
  - dominicr 8y ago
    Funnily enough in Norway they’ve just doubled the bottle deposit, to the benefit of people who search bins for empty bottles (mostly immigrants). I think they were actually hoping less people would throw bottles away but it’d have to be a lot higher to stop that.
  - forapurpose 8y ago
    That'a brilliant. The world needs more satire, the (only?) good answer to the crazy, lying ideologues. It's like we've forgotten how.
- ip26 8y ago
  People need food, so fund a food bank So they can buy produce from Imperfect Produce?
- retsibsi 8y ago
  > People need food, so fund a food bank. Yes. But in reality, removing the 'contortions' does not imply increasing direct funding for food banks. It's misleading to defend a change on the basis that it would lead to a pareto improvement if accompanied by another change, when in reality the two can vary independently and there's no good reason to assume they won't.

gowld 8y ago

You aren't disagreeing. People need food, so fund a food bank. Don't create absurdly contorted markets to preserve unnecessary waste streams to be reprurposed for food banks.

ItsMe000001 8y ago
In the same line and as an anecdotal aside, here in Bavaria we are soon going to have state-wide elections (i.e. for Bavaria). One party that is known to be a kind of comedic joke party but nevertheless actually managed to get someone elected for EU parliament put up posters all over town that are not all that funny down deep: For background, here in Germany quite a few retirees walk around town and collect deposit bottles out of trash bins, to make a little bit of money on top of their meager pensions. The poster ad suggests as election slogan of "Die Partei" ("The Party") to increase the per-bottle deposit in order to decrease poverty, so that retirees get more money from rummaging in trash bins. The poster: https://www.wuv.de/var/wuv/storage/images/media/bilder/die_partei_maxi_str/9009688-1-ger-DE/die_partei_maxi_str.jpg https://www.wuv.de/var/wuv/storage/images/media/bilder/die_p... I think that's a similar variant of the twisted logic that you call out, but while it probably isn't intentional in the example discussed here (looks more like an emergent property nobody planned for) they use it deliberately to make a point, to make people think.
- dominicr 8y ago
  Funnily enough in Norway they’ve just doubled the bottle deposit, to the benefit of people who search bins for empty bottles (mostly immigrants). I think they were actually hoping less people would throw bottles away but it’d have to be a lot higher to stop that.
- forapurpose 8y ago
  That'a brilliant. The world needs more satire, the (only?) good answer to the crazy, lying ideologues. It's like we've forgotten how.
ip26 8y ago
People need food, so fund a food bank So they can buy produce from Imperfect Produce?
retsibsi 8y ago
> People need food, so fund a food bank. Yes. But in reality, removing the 'contortions' does not imply increasing direct funding for food banks. It's misleading to defend a change on the basis that it would lead to a pareto improvement if accompanied by another change, when in reality the two can vary independently and there's no good reason to assume they won't.