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Please no. Write standard modules. Serve standard modules to modern browsers, optionally bundling to modules for production. Bundle to non-modules for legacy br

Please no. Write standard modules. Serve standard modules to modern browsers, optionally bundling to modules for production. Bundle to non-modules for legacy browsers. Then we can all eventually move forward from this mess of non-standard module formats and loaders.

asdkhadsj 8y ago
What are "standard modules" for modern browser? I don't typically frontend dev these days, so I'm likely a bit out of the loop. The way I typically thought of dependencies with browsers was to bundle them all together. Is there some new solution to this problem?
- sephware 8y ago
  They’re still mainly bundlers for now, such as webpack. But browsers are slowly adopting first class modules which has already been solidified by the spec afaik.
- mhd 8y ago
  Probably using the ES2015 import syntax[1], which allows you to dynamically load modules. I have my doubts whether your average medium+ sized JS app will be that dynamically, so you'll probably end up slurping a whole lot o' module at startup. And without tree-shaking, more stuff to download and digest. [1]https://caniuse.com/#feat=es6-module-dynamic-import https://caniuse.com/#feat=es6-module-dynamic-import
  - spankalee 8y ago
    You can bundle modules together so you don't have a ton of downloads, but the basic module graph will at least be loadable. WebPackaging will also help in the future.
crescentfresh 8y ago
One thing that really sours me in esm is that this is possible (fictional main.js): import Vue from 'vue' import jQuery from 'jquery' global.jQuery = jQuery // to get the next line to work import Bootstrap from 'bootstrap' import 'bootstrap/dist/css/bootstrap.css' Then my head explodes. Why would importing a .css file from my JavaScript ever be a thing supported by any tooling. What is that line trying to communicate? What does it even mean to my current scope? (hint: nothing) import became a giant "do something cool on this line" that maybe the tooling you're using knows how to translate via (say) a webpack loader. For anyone wondering, that line gets translated to the browser dynamically including css on the page.
- spankalee 8y ago
  Importing CSS is not supported, at least yet.
dang 8y ago
It's fine to raise a concern or ask a question about it, but please don't be snarky about it. That's against the rules, both for Show HNs and for the site as a whole. https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- spankalee 8y ago
  Honest question - where was the snark? Am I not allowed to think the current situation is a mess?
  - dang 8y ago
    Responding to someone's work with "Please no" seems snarky to me. Certainly it's rude—especially in a Show HN thread, which is all about someone sharing their own work. https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html

asdkhadsj 8y ago

What are "standard modules" for modern browser? I don't typically frontend dev these days, so I'm likely a bit out of the loop. The way I typically thought of dependencies with browsers was to bundle them all together. Is there some new solution to this problem?

sephware 8y ago
They’re still mainly bundlers for now, such as webpack. But browsers are slowly adopting first class modules which has already been solidified by the spec afaik.
mhd 8y ago
Probably using the ES2015 import syntax[1], which allows you to dynamically load modules. I have my doubts whether your average medium+ sized JS app will be that dynamically, so you'll probably end up slurping a whole lot o' module at startup. And without tree-shaking, more stuff to download and digest. [1]https://caniuse.com/#feat=es6-module-dynamic-import https://caniuse.com/#feat=es6-module-dynamic-import
- spankalee 8y ago
  You can bundle modules together so you don't have a ton of downloads, but the basic module graph will at least be loadable. WebPackaging will also help in the future.

crescentfresh 8y ago

One thing that really sours me in esm is that this is possible (fictional main.js): import Vue from 'vue' import jQuery from 'jquery' global.jQuery = jQuery // to get the next line to work import Bootstrap from 'bootstrap' import 'bootstrap/dist/css/bootstrap.css' Then my head explodes. Why would importing a .css file from my JavaScript ever be a thing supported by any tooling. What is that line trying to communicate? What does it even mean to my current scope? (hint: nothing) import became a giant "do something cool on this line" that maybe the tooling you're using knows how to translate via (say) a webpack loader. For anyone wondering, that line gets translated to the browser dynamically including css on the page.

spankalee 8y ago
Importing CSS is not supported, at least yet.

dang 8y ago

It's fine to raise a concern or ask a question about it, but please don't be snarky about it. That's against the rules, both for Show HNs and for the site as a whole. https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

spankalee 8y ago
Honest question - where was the snark? Am I not allowed to think the current situation is a mess?
- dang 8y ago
  Responding to someone's work with "Please no" seems snarky to me. Certainly it's rude—especially in a Show HN thread, which is all about someone sharing their own work. https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html