4 ms·

Why the sadness? As a "Car Guy" I'm thrilled about electric! Instant torque and acceleration, way more responsive than ICE. Just the other month there was the

Why the sadness? As a "Car Guy" I'm thrilled about electric! Instant torque and acceleration, way more responsive than ICE. Just the other month there was the story where an electric shattered all the previous Pikes Peak records: https://www.teslarati.com/vw-id-r-electric-vehicle-pikes-peak-record/ https://www.teslarati.com/vw-id-r-electric-vehicle-pikes-pea... I mean, yeah, it doesn't have the same growl, but if you want raw performance, I'll take my spaceship whirl over rube goldberg-like thousands-of-tiny-explosions any day of the week.

lsiunsuex 8y ago
the growl / sound / smell. The ability to modify, upgrade, "wrench on a car on the weekend" the ability to get beat on the track 1 weekend, drop a couple grand on new parts the next, then go back and beat them the following weekend. car shows and seeing a super charged mustang or camaro or twin turbos or something completely different someone came up with an idea for and built. the same way us programmers tinker and build stuff for the hell of it, is the same was us car guys build stuff and tinker for the hell of it. some take it seriously and go to track, some (me) just do it cause it's a nice break. spending a day installing a new exhaust can be fun. playing with 240volts of batteries (or whatever it is, lol) (if theres anything to play with) - not so much i'm thinking, lol...
- icebraining 8y ago
  I'm no gearhead, but the Zombie222 looks good to me, and it's made by a tinkerer.
- floatrock 8y ago
  That's fair... the rube goldberg-like nature of ICE's means there's a lot more pieces you can swap in and out and continuously tweak, and a lot more opportunity for such after-market optimizations. There definitely is a kind of pride in building a machine that really is yours. I get that. Do you think electrics just can't have such an aftermarket mod culture? I mean, yeah, it's not here now, but as the market matures...? ICE's have had custom ECU's that tweak timings for a while now, once the scale of batteries ramps up I'm sure people will find ways of discharging levels of power that the OEM considers warranty-voiding. You may not be able to put in a custom exhaust, but you'll certainly be able to move batteries around and experiment with different weight distributions. Instead of a custom intake manifold you can swap in front/rear motors with different HP's. I mean, yeah, electric mod culture will probably more resemble edison's lab than a greasemonkey pit (and yeah, there's a danger that the Acme Motor won't work with the Emca Battery Pack because DMCA), but the opportunity to tweak your own machine will still be there I think, if maybe in a slightly different form and with different optimization parameters.
- ska 8y ago
  To be fair, it's quite likely you'll be able to keep doing all these things for a long time. You may not be able to drive your ICE car to the track though, might have to trailer it.
  - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
    >You may not be able to drive your ICE car to the track though, might have to trailer it. Owning vehicle you have to trailer to the track is kind of like owning guns and using them to hunt in England. Yeah you can do it but all the red tape and cost results in practically only the landed gentry being able to justify such a costly hobby. That's really not the same.
    - ska 8y ago
      I don't think that's a fair comparison. A lot of track vehicles used today are dedicated, and not necessarily expensive. Fundamentally there are difficult compromises to make a vehicle behave well on the street and track, after all - you can often be cheaper overall to have a daily driver and a track car/bike, and make fewer compromises. Also spend less of your time changing tires :)
      - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
        Most automotive enthusiasts don't have track vehicles, most have street-able vehicles they take to the track (or whatever their preferred event is). This is even more true for 4x4s and drag racing. Saying "well having a vehicle you trailer to the event is cheaper" assumes a baseline amount of money being spent that is more than most people have to dedicate to the hobby. That cuts out the entire low end of the hobby.
        ska 8y ago
        I agree it cuts out the very low end, but there are a ton of people left that have either dedicated or nearly dedicated (e.g. road legal but never really used for anything else). The lowest end of the hobby will change, obviously. Not convinced it will completely go away. I think my point was it isn't a crazy bump in expense to have a vehicle you play with only on the track, though it may not be the same vehicle. And yes, it means you can't easily drive your hobby car out to a drag strip to see what it will do. Or a bunch of other things. But it doesn't mean there is no hobby to be had - at least I hope so. 4x4 is interesting, i hadn't considered but suspect that will be under more pressure than track days.
- Theodores 8y ago
  Sounds like when I early adopted digital photography. My friends with proper cameras told me how much there was to film grain, how they loved playing with chemicals and the rest of it. They sneered at my passion for digital photography claiming it was dull. Where are they now, on Instagram with an iPhone.
  - sbarker 8y ago
    I see your point, but to be fair Kodak did bring film back. https://www.kodak.com/US/en/consumer/products/super8/super-8-film/default.htm https://www.kodak.com/US/en/consumer/products/super8/super-8...
- Symbiote 8y ago
  > the growl / sound / smell. (I'll be pleased when none of these (or the pollution) is within a city, but that's not my main point.) > Playing with 240 volts of batteries (or whatever it is, lol) (if there's anything to play with) - not so much I'm thinking, lol... An engineer friend spends all his spare time tweaking an electric motorcycle. There's a lot to control in software, and although there are far fewer components than an ICE bike, he has gradually upgraded them, or will change them for a particular performance characteristic. Maybe he could ask why you feel so safe with flammable liquids and toxic combustion products. (Equally, some of my father's friends maintain, repair and operate steam locomotives. Needing a railway makes this far more difficult than for cars, but it's not too difficult to find a similar group in England.)
  - lsiunsuex 8y ago
    > An engineer friend spends all his spare time tweaking an electric motorcycle. There's a lot to control in software While an electric motorcycle might have a fairly simple ECU, something like my Mustang is a bit more complex. While software and hardware to modify the ECU coding yourself is available, as well as the training for it, most in the community highly advise against DIY and paying a pro (which most of us do) to do it for you. $200 to let someone who "knows" what their doing vs 1 wrong value and you blow a rod or crack the block... > Maybe he could ask why you feel so safe with flammable liquids and toxic combustion products. It would probably turn into the same discussion I have with friends as to why I'm more comfortable doing electrical work in a house, vs doing plumbing work. I've accepted the risk that if I get electrocuted, it's just me being screwed, vs if I screw up a plumbing solder, I can flood an entire house. With gasoline, I know what precautions to take and avoid an explosion. Vs the voltage / amperage on a tesla style battery pack, yeah, check it with a volt meter and make sure everything is grounded properly - but accidents will still occur. There are precautions to take on both sides; there's new education on both sides; etc... More than anything, maybe it just falls to nostalgia; working on cars with dad made me work on cars when I got older. I'm not opposed to electric cars - I quite welcome them as a fact - I have a step son who wants to be a diesel engineer mechanic and I told him, may all well find classes for electric motors and get into that / get a head start (hes 15). As dad got me into cars, maybe my step son gets me into electric motors...
mrguyorama 8y ago
Well seeing as being a hobbyist mechanic and a hobbyist electrician aren't even in the same ballpark, it's not hard to see how interest in the internal combustion engine does not transfer.
outworlder 8y ago
Oh yeah, the growl. The constant reminder that your gas is being spent to generate sound waves, not to propel the car.

lsiunsuex 8y ago

the growl / sound / smell. The ability to modify, upgrade, "wrench on a car on the weekend" the ability to get beat on the track 1 weekend, drop a couple grand on new parts the next, then go back and beat them the following weekend. car shows and seeing a super charged mustang or camaro or twin turbos or something completely different someone came up with an idea for and built. the same way us programmers tinker and build stuff for the hell of it, is the same was us car guys build stuff and tinker for the hell of it. some take it seriously and go to track, some (me) just do it cause it's a nice break. spending a day installing a new exhaust can be fun. playing with 240volts of batteries (or whatever it is, lol) (if theres anything to play with) - not so much i'm thinking, lol...

icebraining 8y ago
I'm no gearhead, but the Zombie222 looks good to me, and it's made by a tinkerer.
floatrock 8y ago
That's fair... the rube goldberg-like nature of ICE's means there's a lot more pieces you can swap in and out and continuously tweak, and a lot more opportunity for such after-market optimizations. There definitely is a kind of pride in building a machine that really is yours. I get that. Do you think electrics just can't have such an aftermarket mod culture? I mean, yeah, it's not here now, but as the market matures...? ICE's have had custom ECU's that tweak timings for a while now, once the scale of batteries ramps up I'm sure people will find ways of discharging levels of power that the OEM considers warranty-voiding. You may not be able to put in a custom exhaust, but you'll certainly be able to move batteries around and experiment with different weight distributions. Instead of a custom intake manifold you can swap in front/rear motors with different HP's. I mean, yeah, electric mod culture will probably more resemble edison's lab than a greasemonkey pit (and yeah, there's a danger that the Acme Motor won't work with the Emca Battery Pack because DMCA), but the opportunity to tweak your own machine will still be there I think, if maybe in a slightly different form and with different optimization parameters.
ska 8y ago
To be fair, it's quite likely you'll be able to keep doing all these things for a long time. You may not be able to drive your ICE car to the track though, might have to trailer it.
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  >You may not be able to drive your ICE car to the track though, might have to trailer it. Owning vehicle you have to trailer to the track is kind of like owning guns and using them to hunt in England. Yeah you can do it but all the red tape and cost results in practically only the landed gentry being able to justify such a costly hobby. That's really not the same.
  - ska 8y ago
    I don't think that's a fair comparison. A lot of track vehicles used today are dedicated, and not necessarily expensive. Fundamentally there are difficult compromises to make a vehicle behave well on the street and track, after all - you can often be cheaper overall to have a daily driver and a track car/bike, and make fewer compromises. Also spend less of your time changing tires :)
    - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
      Most automotive enthusiasts don't have track vehicles, most have street-able vehicles they take to the track (or whatever their preferred event is). This is even more true for 4x4s and drag racing. Saying "well having a vehicle you trailer to the event is cheaper" assumes a baseline amount of money being spent that is more than most people have to dedicate to the hobby. That cuts out the entire low end of the hobby.
      - ska 8y ago
        I agree it cuts out the very low end, but there are a ton of people left that have either dedicated or nearly dedicated (e.g. road legal but never really used for anything else). The lowest end of the hobby will change, obviously. Not convinced it will completely go away. I think my point was it isn't a crazy bump in expense to have a vehicle you play with only on the track, though it may not be the same vehicle. And yes, it means you can't easily drive your hobby car out to a drag strip to see what it will do. Or a bunch of other things. But it doesn't mean there is no hobby to be had - at least I hope so. 4x4 is interesting, i hadn't considered but suspect that will be under more pressure than track days.
Theodores 8y ago
Sounds like when I early adopted digital photography. My friends with proper cameras told me how much there was to film grain, how they loved playing with chemicals and the rest of it. They sneered at my passion for digital photography claiming it was dull. Where are they now, on Instagram with an iPhone.
- sbarker 8y ago
  I see your point, but to be fair Kodak did bring film back. https://www.kodak.com/US/en/consumer/products/super8/super-8-film/default.htm https://www.kodak.com/US/en/consumer/products/super8/super-8...
Symbiote 8y ago
> the growl / sound / smell. (I'll be pleased when none of these (or the pollution) is within a city, but that's not my main point.) > Playing with 240 volts of batteries (or whatever it is, lol) (if there's anything to play with) - not so much I'm thinking, lol... An engineer friend spends all his spare time tweaking an electric motorcycle. There's a lot to control in software, and although there are far fewer components than an ICE bike, he has gradually upgraded them, or will change them for a particular performance characteristic. Maybe he could ask why you feel so safe with flammable liquids and toxic combustion products. (Equally, some of my father's friends maintain, repair and operate steam locomotives. Needing a railway makes this far more difficult than for cars, but it's not too difficult to find a similar group in England.)
- lsiunsuex 8y ago
  > An engineer friend spends all his spare time tweaking an electric motorcycle. There's a lot to control in software While an electric motorcycle might have a fairly simple ECU, something like my Mustang is a bit more complex. While software and hardware to modify the ECU coding yourself is available, as well as the training for it, most in the community highly advise against DIY and paying a pro (which most of us do) to do it for you. $200 to let someone who "knows" what their doing vs 1 wrong value and you blow a rod or crack the block... > Maybe he could ask why you feel so safe with flammable liquids and toxic combustion products. It would probably turn into the same discussion I have with friends as to why I'm more comfortable doing electrical work in a house, vs doing plumbing work. I've accepted the risk that if I get electrocuted, it's just me being screwed, vs if I screw up a plumbing solder, I can flood an entire house. With gasoline, I know what precautions to take and avoid an explosion. Vs the voltage / amperage on a tesla style battery pack, yeah, check it with a volt meter and make sure everything is grounded properly - but accidents will still occur. There are precautions to take on both sides; there's new education on both sides; etc... More than anything, maybe it just falls to nostalgia; working on cars with dad made me work on cars when I got older. I'm not opposed to electric cars - I quite welcome them as a fact - I have a step son who wants to be a diesel engineer mechanic and I told him, may all well find classes for electric motors and get into that / get a head start (hes 15). As dad got me into cars, maybe my step son gets me into electric motors...

mrguyorama 8y ago

Well seeing as being a hobbyist mechanic and a hobbyist electrician aren't even in the same ballpark, it's not hard to see how interest in the internal combustion engine does not transfer.

outworlder 8y ago

Oh yeah, the growl. The constant reminder that your gas is being spent to generate sound waves, not to propel the car.