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Delivering high voltage to recharge the amperage these batteries need is a whole different grid in remote areas to delivering 240v for light bulbs and fridges.

Delivering high voltage to recharge the amperage these batteries need is a whole different grid in remote areas to delivering 240v for light bulbs and fridges. Separately Norway is one of the richest countries on the planet thanks to its offshore oil. Their sovereign fund dwarfs Saudi Arabia in comparison so maybe they currently can cannibalize that revenue to build a supergrid. China is building an ultra high voltage direct current supergrid to accommodate future EV needs (using primarily coal as a power source). I don't see this happening anywhere else? http://www.economist.com/news/science-and-technology/21714325-transmitting-power-over-thousands-kilometres-requires-new-electricity http://www.economist.com/news/science-and-technology/2171432...

bluGill 8y ago
I don't know what the situation is in Europe, but in the US farmers use a lot of power. They have welders and other such tools that can draw 50 amps or more. The motors for their drying fans are drawing 20 amps each (and several of them can run at once). Note that the above amp figures are at 240 volts just like power in Europe, not the lower 120 we use for lights and fridges.
- olivermarks 8y ago
  continuous draw for hundreds of thousands of batteries is vastly more than this example
  - davidgould 8y ago
    What is the application for hundreds of thousands of batteries on a farm?
Symbiote 8y ago
Denmark doesn't really have "remote areas" by the standards of large countries. Here's a map of the high voltage power grid. I don't think anywhere is more than 50km from a transmission line. https://en.energinet.dk/-/media/9160AAB5C484432399767220B78DE44D.jpg https://en.energinet.dk/-/media/9160AAB5C484432399767220B78D... The increase will be gradual, and no doubt the power grid company is already planning for it.
anticensor 8y ago
You could use train/tram/trolleybus grid for adequate voltages.
outworlder 8y ago
> Delivering high voltage to recharge the amperage these batteries need is a whole different grid in remote areas to delivering 240v for light bulbs and fridges. If they have 240v outlets, that's half the battle. That is around 31 miles per hour of charge, from a standard outlet (although you have to make sure your wiring is good) without any extra infrastructure. This may not be sufficient for a cross-country drive across the continental US, but for most european countries? You can drive 300 miles and charge overnight even with no fast charging at all. Compare this with setting up gas stations (digging underground to install the tanks, logistics to keep them topped off, etc) and gasoline starts to look quite insane. It's just that we have this existing infrastructure built over a century that we take for granted.
davidgould 8y ago
No need for a separate grid to deliver high voltage even in rural areas, the overhead or underground wires are between 4KV to 30KV anyway. There is a transformer to step it down to the end use voltage, whatever that is, eg 240 or 400.
kwhitefoot 8y ago
The guys who run the British National Grid disagree that the grid needs major changes: http://fes.nationalgrid.com/media/1264/ev-myth-buster-v032.pdf http://fes.nationalgrid.com/media/1264/ev-myth-buster-v032.p..., http://fes.nationalgrid.com/media/1253/final-fes-2017-updated-interactive-pdf-44-amended.pdf http://fes.nationalgrid.com/media/1253/final-fes-2017-update.... The Norwegians aren't predicting the need for supergrid either: http://publikasjoner.nve.no/rapport/2017/rapport2017_77.pdf http://publikasjoner.nve.no/rapport/2017/rapport2017_77.pdf (sorry it's in Norwegian and too big for Google and Bing to translate).

bluGill 8y ago

I don't know what the situation is in Europe, but in the US farmers use a lot of power. They have welders and other such tools that can draw 50 amps or more. The motors for their drying fans are drawing 20 amps each (and several of them can run at once). Note that the above amp figures are at 240 volts just like power in Europe, not the lower 120 we use for lights and fridges.

olivermarks 8y ago
continuous draw for hundreds of thousands of batteries is vastly more than this example
- davidgould 8y ago
  What is the application for hundreds of thousands of batteries on a farm?

Symbiote 8y ago

Denmark doesn't really have "remote areas" by the standards of large countries. Here's a map of the high voltage power grid. I don't think anywhere is more than 50km from a transmission line. https://en.energinet.dk/-/media/9160AAB5C484432399767220B78DE44D.jpg https://en.energinet.dk/-/media/9160AAB5C484432399767220B78D... The increase will be gradual, and no doubt the power grid company is already planning for it.

anticensor 8y ago

You could use train/tram/trolleybus grid for adequate voltages.

outworlder 8y ago

> Delivering high voltage to recharge the amperage these batteries need is a whole different grid in remote areas to delivering 240v for light bulbs and fridges. If they have 240v outlets, that's half the battle. That is around 31 miles per hour of charge, from a standard outlet (although you have to make sure your wiring is good) without any extra infrastructure. This may not be sufficient for a cross-country drive across the continental US, but for most european countries? You can drive 300 miles and charge overnight even with no fast charging at all. Compare this with setting up gas stations (digging underground to install the tanks, logistics to keep them topped off, etc) and gasoline starts to look quite insane. It's just that we have this existing infrastructure built over a century that we take for granted.

davidgould 8y ago

No need for a separate grid to deliver high voltage even in rural areas, the overhead or underground wires are between 4KV to 30KV anyway. There is a transformer to step it down to the end use voltage, whatever that is, eg 240 or 400.

kwhitefoot 8y ago

The guys who run the British National Grid disagree that the grid needs major changes: http://fes.nationalgrid.com/media/1264/ev-myth-buster-v032.pdf http://fes.nationalgrid.com/media/1264/ev-myth-buster-v032.p..., http://fes.nationalgrid.com/media/1253/final-fes-2017-updated-interactive-pdf-44-amended.pdf http://fes.nationalgrid.com/media/1253/final-fes-2017-update.... The Norwegians aren't predicting the need for supergrid either: http://publikasjoner.nve.no/rapport/2017/rapport2017_77.pdf http://publikasjoner.nve.no/rapport/2017/rapport2017_77.pdf (sorry it's in Norwegian and too big for Google and Bing to translate).