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That ignores the conflict is between the one of the world's greatest military powers versus a civilian population, slowly being forced to self-dispossess with z

by cmurf 8y ago

That ignores the conflict is between the one of the world's greatest military powers versus a civilian population, slowly being forced to self-dispossess with zero freedom of movement, makes the situation worse than bantustans. One side is a signatory to the Geneva Conventions, and those conventions clearly make occupation and colonization of occupied land illegal. And this was the plan from the very beginning in the words of their own founders: Jabotinsky's The Iron Wall (1923). Why wouldn't you take them at their word? And how hasn't that colonial ideology, in retrospect, predicted exactly where Israel-Palestine is at today?

beagle3 8y ago
Jabotinaky is from one faction, not the ruling one for the first 30 years or so of Israel’s history. Many disagreed with him even back then. After the Oslo accords, for a while, the Palestinian population had prosperity and there was a mutually agreed path forward. There were dissenting voices on both sides. Those in Israel assisinated PM Rabin. Those in the Gazan side elected Hamas democratically (and then lost the ability to vote ... happens when you vote for a non Democratic Party and they win). It is easy to lay all blame at Israel for being a military power. But the Palestinian side deserves a lot of the blame. Also, don’t poke a military power if you don’t want to be bombed. “Civillian population” doesn’t build attack tunnels, rocket factories, train commandos, etc. I don’t blame them for trying, but that comes with consequences like getting bombed. Hamas is not wearing uniforms but they are guerilla / army. Not civillian.
- dogma1138 8y ago
  There was over a 10 year gap between Rabin’s assasination and the election of Hamas and the withrawal from Gaza. Ironically the largest concessions and the ratification of the Oslo accords were done by Benjamin Netanyahu during his first term in the mid 90׳s and the withdrawal from Gaza was initiated by Ariel Sharon both were ״right wing״ governments. To me this signifies that under the right conditions even the most hawkish government in Israel can seek peace but at this point I’m not sure which conditions can be met for any one in the Palestinian Authority yet alone Hamas to be willing and able to negotiate in true faith.

by cmurf 8y ago

beagle3 8y ago

Jabotinaky is from one faction, not the ruling one for the first 30 years or so of Israel’s history. Many disagreed with him even back then. After the Oslo accords, for a while, the Palestinian population had prosperity and there was a mutually agreed path forward. There were dissenting voices on both sides. Those in Israel assisinated PM Rabin. Those in the Gazan side elected Hamas democratically (and then lost the ability to vote ... happens when you vote for a non Democratic Party and they win). It is easy to lay all blame at Israel for being a military power. But the Palestinian side deserves a lot of the blame. Also, don’t poke a military power if you don’t want to be bombed. “Civillian population” doesn’t build attack tunnels, rocket factories, train commandos, etc. I don’t blame them for trying, but that comes with consequences like getting bombed. Hamas is not wearing uniforms but they are guerilla / army. Not civillian.

dogma1138 8y ago
There was over a 10 year gap between Rabin’s assasination and the election of Hamas and the withrawal from Gaza. Ironically the largest concessions and the ratification of the Oslo accords were done by Benjamin Netanyahu during his first term in the mid 90׳s and the withdrawal from Gaza was initiated by Ariel Sharon both were ״right wing״ governments. To me this signifies that under the right conditions even the most hawkish government in Israel can seek peace but at this point I’m not sure which conditions can be met for any one in the Palestinian Authority yet alone Hamas to be willing and able to negotiate in true faith.