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While the promise sounds great, it's important to note that no law has actually been passed. Also, incentives to increase sales of electric vehicles are yet to

While the promise sounds great, it's important to note that no law has actually been passed. Also, incentives to increase sales of electric vehicles are yet to be announced. Denmark's Scandinavian neighbour Norway is on the other side of the spectrum. Heavy subsidisation has caused every 2nd (!) car sold to be electric (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-environment-norway-autos/norway-powers-ahead-over-half-new-car-sales-now-electric-or-hybrid-idUSKBN1ES0WC https://www.reuters.com/article/us-environment-norway-autos/...).

martin_bech 8y ago
Incentives are to be anounced next week. If they follow the so called “climate panel” they will be horrible.. a Tesla will actually go up in price..
- lucideer 8y ago
  Do you have a link to the "climate panel's" recommendations that increase the Tesla price? I can't find any specific recommendations with actual numbers, only general stuff on suggested areas for inventivising BEVs.
  - martin_bech 8y ago
    The idea is that EVs are fully taxed the danish 150% car tax (on top og the danish 25% sales tax) but get a discount of about 50.000 DKK or just under 8.000USD.. For a base Tesla Model S, that would mean a tax of about 120.000 USD..
    - daveFNbuck 8y ago
      What's the current tax on a base Tesla Model S?
      - kalms 8y ago
        20% I believe https://www.tesla.com/da_DK/support/incentives https://www.tesla.com/da_DK/support/incentives (Danish)
        martin_bech 8y ago
        Yes but thats 20% of the 150% so more like 30%. As the system is now, it will be 40% of the 150% by january.
        daveFNbuck 8y ago
        So you're saying the taxes on a 65.200 USD car will increase by 30.000 USD, with only 8.000 USD in discounts to offset the increase?
        martin_bech 8y ago
        yes..
- daveFNbuck 8y ago
  Tesla is already selling all the cars they can make. If the goal is a higher percentage of electric cars on the road, subsidizing them won't help. The more important thing is to incentivize other manufacturers to produce more electric vehicles.
  - bluGill 8y ago
    To play devils advocate: electric cars are a niche, Sure Tesla can sell out. The niche is large enough - for more players, but ultimately electric cars will top out at a small fraction of the total vehicle market. Of course this is predicting the future. Nobody does that well. In a few years we will have facts, but that doesn't say much about the future beyond that.
    - daveFNbuck 8y ago
      That's the future that governments are trying to avoid by subsidizing electric cars and/or restricting gasoline-powered cars.
      - bluGill 8y ago
        There are some disadvantages of electric cars which may or may not be solvable.
        nielsbot 8y ago
        Sure, some ICE may remain around for special uses, but I guess the vast majority of people will be fine w an electric car. (Especially in 2030)
        logifail 8y ago
        By coincidence, I'll be picking up a brand new (ICE) vehicle from my dealer in just over 12 hours' time. The electric version of the vehicle I'm buying costs just a shade over twice as much(!) as the ICE version. I'm not fine paying more than twice as much for a product that in many respects is "less good".
camelCaseOfBeer 8y ago
Incentives are probably the most influential factor in the success of this effort. I wish them the best in making the world a better place but the cynic in me is skeptical. Generally top-down legislative approaches like, "it's illegal to sell a new internal combustion engine" flop, for example people will just buy and resell new cars to get around it. Better example, how corporations navigate tax laws. However if the incentives are carefully thought out, making ownership of a car that passes standards cheaper and less hassle to own, it can work. Controlling behavior is all about incentives, so behavioral economics bears no exception. In general I think a disparate amount of attention is paid to making top-down laws instead of addressing incentive. But that is beside the point. Now if only we could convince the 7 most polluting cargoships to curb emissions...
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
elyonkiNIR 8y ago
Communism at its finest. There’s no way electric cars will go over 10% usage anytime during the next 100 years. Spain in the meanwhile has a huge potential. I don’t have source but currently about 35% of the cars are electric there, even though there are 0 incentives. Edit: would the downvoters care to explain?
xxs 8y ago
Isn't it ironic that most of welfare and subsidies actually come from the oil. Stuff like 25km of under sea tunnel leading to a town with sub 2k population is quite a common sight there. While Norway is an amazing country in many aspects, the amount of oil owned by a state company puts it in a rather unique position.
- jopsen 8y ago
  Fair point, but I have a lot of respect for how Norway manages it's oil money.. State wealthfare fund and research in various techniques to minimize pollution from oil production.
- NeedMoreTea 8y ago
  Is it ironic? Creating a national investment fund from the oil bonus seems a far better choice than continuing as usual, or using it to pay for tax cuts (1980's UK). When the oil runs out, or is considered too damaging to use any more, the infrastructure will still be there, and so will the fund.
- thelaith5 8y ago
  This is a great article explaining how an Iraqi was largely the mind behind putting all the oil money in a state-owned fund as to avoid the damage that oil usually had done to any country that had discovered it. https://www.ft.com/content/99680a04-92a0-11de-b63b-00144feabdc0 https://www.ft.com/content/99680a04-92a0-11de-b63b-00144feab...
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - tomaskafka 8y ago
    Putting all oil money into state owned fund also kinda helps the people ruling the state :)
- thomasahle 8y ago
  > Stuff like 25km of under sea tunnel leading to a town with sub 2k population is quite a common sight there. It's not really common. They only have one tunnel that's 24.5km ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tunnels_in_Norway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tunnels_in_Norway ) and it's not under the sea. The remaining are 10km or shorter. The longest undersea tunnel is 8.9km and it goes to a city with a population of 8,215. It goes to an entire island though, so a few more people than that benefit. Your overall point is completely right, but might as well get the facts straight, so people can compare and don't recite wrong information. Norway doesn't actually show up much on the list of longest tunnels: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest_tunnels https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest_tunnels

martin_bech 8y ago

Incentives are to be anounced next week. If they follow the so called “climate panel” they will be horrible.. a Tesla will actually go up in price..

lucideer 8y ago
Do you have a link to the "climate panel's" recommendations that increase the Tesla price? I can't find any specific recommendations with actual numbers, only general stuff on suggested areas for inventivising BEVs.
- martin_bech 8y ago
  The idea is that EVs are fully taxed the danish 150% car tax (on top og the danish 25% sales tax) but get a discount of about 50.000 DKK or just under 8.000USD.. For a base Tesla Model S, that would mean a tax of about 120.000 USD..
  - daveFNbuck 8y ago
    What's the current tax on a base Tesla Model S?
    - kalms 8y ago
      20% I believe https://www.tesla.com/da_DK/support/incentives https://www.tesla.com/da_DK/support/incentives (Danish)
      - martin_bech 8y ago
        Yes but thats 20% of the 150% so more like 30%. As the system is now, it will be 40% of the 150% by january.
        daveFNbuck 8y ago
        So you're saying the taxes on a 65.200 USD car will increase by 30.000 USD, with only 8.000 USD in discounts to offset the increase?
        martin_bech 8y ago
        yes..
daveFNbuck 8y ago
Tesla is already selling all the cars they can make. If the goal is a higher percentage of electric cars on the road, subsidizing them won't help. The more important thing is to incentivize other manufacturers to produce more electric vehicles.
- bluGill 8y ago
  To play devils advocate: electric cars are a niche, Sure Tesla can sell out. The niche is large enough - for more players, but ultimately electric cars will top out at a small fraction of the total vehicle market. Of course this is predicting the future. Nobody does that well. In a few years we will have facts, but that doesn't say much about the future beyond that.
  - daveFNbuck 8y ago
    That's the future that governments are trying to avoid by subsidizing electric cars and/or restricting gasoline-powered cars.
    - bluGill 8y ago
      There are some disadvantages of electric cars which may or may not be solvable.
      - nielsbot 8y ago
        Sure, some ICE may remain around for special uses, but I guess the vast majority of people will be fine w an electric car. (Especially in 2030)
        logifail 8y ago
        By coincidence, I'll be picking up a brand new (ICE) vehicle from my dealer in just over 12 hours' time. The electric version of the vehicle I'm buying costs just a shade over twice as much(!) as the ICE version. I'm not fine paying more than twice as much for a product that in many respects is "less good".

camelCaseOfBeer 8y ago

Incentives are probably the most influential factor in the success of this effort. I wish them the best in making the world a better place but the cynic in me is skeptical. Generally top-down legislative approaches like, "it's illegal to sell a new internal combustion engine" flop, for example people will just buy and resell new cars to get around it. Better example, how corporations navigate tax laws. However if the incentives are carefully thought out, making ownership of a car that passes standards cheaper and less hassle to own, it can work. Controlling behavior is all about incentives, so behavioral economics bears no exception. In general I think a disparate amount of attention is paid to making top-down laws instead of addressing incentive. But that is beside the point. Now if only we could convince the 7 most polluting cargoships to curb emissions...

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

elyonkiNIR 8y ago

Communism at its finest. There’s no way electric cars will go over 10% usage anytime during the next 100 years. Spain in the meanwhile has a huge potential. I don’t have source but currently about 35% of the cars are electric there, even though there are 0 incentives. Edit: would the downvoters care to explain?

xxs 8y ago

Isn't it ironic that most of welfare and subsidies actually come from the oil. Stuff like 25km of under sea tunnel leading to a town with sub 2k population is quite a common sight there. While Norway is an amazing country in many aspects, the amount of oil owned by a state company puts it in a rather unique position.

jopsen 8y ago
Fair point, but I have a lot of respect for how Norway manages it's oil money.. State wealthfare fund and research in various techniques to minimize pollution from oil production.
NeedMoreTea 8y ago
Is it ironic? Creating a national investment fund from the oil bonus seems a far better choice than continuing as usual, or using it to pay for tax cuts (1980's UK). When the oil runs out, or is considered too damaging to use any more, the infrastructure will still be there, and so will the fund.
thelaith5 8y ago
This is a great article explaining how an Iraqi was largely the mind behind putting all the oil money in a state-owned fund as to avoid the damage that oil usually had done to any country that had discovered it. https://www.ft.com/content/99680a04-92a0-11de-b63b-00144feabdc0 https://www.ft.com/content/99680a04-92a0-11de-b63b-00144feab...
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- tomaskafka 8y ago
  Putting all oil money into state owned fund also kinda helps the people ruling the state :)
thomasahle 8y ago
> Stuff like 25km of under sea tunnel leading to a town with sub 2k population is quite a common sight there. It's not really common. They only have one tunnel that's 24.5km ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tunnels_in_Norway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tunnels_in_Norway ) and it's not under the sea. The remaining are 10km or shorter. The longest undersea tunnel is 8.9km and it goes to a city with a population of 8,215. It goes to an entire island though, so a few more people than that benefit. Your overall point is completely right, but might as well get the facts straight, so people can compare and don't recite wrong information. Norway doesn't actually show up much on the list of longest tunnels: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest_tunnels https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest_tunnels