8 ms·

These dual standards for censorship annoy me. Google on Venezuelan censoring: bad, fight it Google on Chinese censoring: complicit, support it

malvosenior 8y ago
Google on Google censorship: ship it! https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/03/22/youtube-bans-more-firearms-videos-days-before-national-rally-for-gun-control https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/03/2...
notyourday 8y ago
You see, Venezuelans dont have enough money for Google to extract.
Shivetya 8y ago
Google isn't the only big tech company to cave to China's demands
- aikah 8y ago
  Google is one of these US tech companies claiming they have moral values in their code of conduct, using such words as "evil".
  - mattigames 8y ago
    They no longer use that word.
    - surajrmal 8y ago
      That's incorrect, it's still in the code of conduct. It's the last statement: https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct.html https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct.html
      - mattigames 8y ago
        Sorry, I stand corrected.
      - gambler 8y ago
        Just another example of why codes of conduct are fuzzy hypocritical bullshit. If you want to actually change something, create clearly defined, actionable rules, specify scope and follow them 100% of the time. Like "we do not log any information except X and Y".
  - blfr 8y ago
    It meant "don't become Microsoft." HNers keep bringing it up as if they didn't live through the late 90s. Am I old now? And it worked. Sadly, there are many more evils in the world than becoming Microsoft.
bun_at_work 8y ago
Just a few things: 1) This tool is made by an Alphabet owned company (Jigsaw), not Google, another Alphabet owned company. The companies will have different missions, even if profits flow the same direction. 2) Venezuela doesn't have a huge market where Google is blocked by a nation-wide firewall. 3) China has a nation-wide firewall blocking any Google service, thereby forcing Google to negotiate how their service works if they want to make money there. Note: Oversimplifying the situation for the sake of pitchforking a company you might not like does no one any good. Venezuela and China are very different companies, in very different environments. Google as a company (and Alphabet, probably more so) is almost certainly anti-censorship, philosophically; they just don't operate in a vacuum.
- malvosenior 8y ago
  Can I ask you if you work for Google? If so you should probably disclose that because you post history makes this very much look like astroturfing. Sorry for bringing this up (I never do that on HN) but this is just too questionable of a defense to be putting up.
  - r3bl 8y ago
    As someone who was a part of a project that Jigsaw sponsored, I can vouch for his claim that Google and Jigsaw have entirely different (and often contrary) missions. I am a Google critic as much as everyone else here, but I can say with confidence that we would all be thrilled if Google took the same stand on censorship as is Jigsaw's.
    - malvosenior 8y ago
      I think the claim is fine if you disclose you're an employee or somehow related to the project (as you have done), but this really looks like astroturfing.
- whatshisface 8y ago
  >Google as a company (and Alphabet, probably more so) is almost certainly anti-censorship, philosophically; they just don't operate in a vacuum. Since when was being motivated to do wrong a mitigating condition for having done wrong? "Sorry officer, I wasn't going to steal it at first, but then I started wanting it."
freewizard 8y ago
Yes, dual standards because of dual internets. Alphabet is contributing to the trend of dual internets predicted by its own ex-CEO Eric Schmidt[1], "a Chinese-led internet and a non-Chinese internet led by America". [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/20/eric-schmidt-ex-google-ceo-predicts-internet-split-china.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/20/eric-schmidt-ex-google-ceo-p...
cmg 8y ago
It's blatant hypocrisy. Google has also de-ranked both Russia Today and Sputnik, but apparently doesn't doesn't consider that "censorship." https://www.pcmag.com/news/357494/google-to-de-rank-rt-sputnik-to-stop-misinformation https://www.pcmag.com/news/357494/google-to-de-rank-rt-sputn...
colordrops 8y ago
YouTube is another example of gross censorship.
gadders 8y ago
Google on Right Wing censoring: complicit, support it
- malnourish 8y ago
  How exactly is google working with governments to censor right wing media?
foobiekr 8y ago
Perhaps this project is to create demand for Google-China-like solutions in other countries. Venezuela is not a large market but perhaps they want a demo vehicle for Saudi Arabia to witness to help get them a deal (and a more favorable one than China). The most profitable SW projects often have a lot of reuse.
CharlesW 8y ago
Maybe the strategy is to service Sneetches with both Star-On and Star-Off machines.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sneetches_and_Other_Stories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sneetches_and_Other_Storie...

malvosenior 8y ago

Google on Google censorship: ship it! https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/03/22/youtube-bans-more-firearms-videos-days-before-national-rally-for-gun-control https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/03/2...

notyourday 8y ago

You see, Venezuelans dont have enough money for Google to extract.

Shivetya 8y ago

Google isn't the only big tech company to cave to China's demands

aikah 8y ago
Google is one of these US tech companies claiming they have moral values in their code of conduct, using such words as "evil".
- mattigames 8y ago
  They no longer use that word.
  - surajrmal 8y ago
    That's incorrect, it's still in the code of conduct. It's the last statement: https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct.html https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct.html
    - mattigames 8y ago
      Sorry, I stand corrected.
    - gambler 8y ago
      Just another example of why codes of conduct are fuzzy hypocritical bullshit. If you want to actually change something, create clearly defined, actionable rules, specify scope and follow them 100% of the time. Like "we do not log any information except X and Y".
- blfr 8y ago
  It meant "don't become Microsoft." HNers keep bringing it up as if they didn't live through the late 90s. Am I old now? And it worked. Sadly, there are many more evils in the world than becoming Microsoft.

bun_at_work 8y ago

Just a few things: 1) This tool is made by an Alphabet owned company (Jigsaw), not Google, another Alphabet owned company. The companies will have different missions, even if profits flow the same direction. 2) Venezuela doesn't have a huge market where Google is blocked by a nation-wide firewall. 3) China has a nation-wide firewall blocking any Google service, thereby forcing Google to negotiate how their service works if they want to make money there. Note: Oversimplifying the situation for the sake of pitchforking a company you might not like does no one any good. Venezuela and China are very different companies, in very different environments. Google as a company (and Alphabet, probably more so) is almost certainly anti-censorship, philosophically; they just don't operate in a vacuum.

malvosenior 8y ago
Can I ask you if you work for Google? If so you should probably disclose that because you post history makes this very much look like astroturfing. Sorry for bringing this up (I never do that on HN) but this is just too questionable of a defense to be putting up.
- r3bl 8y ago
  As someone who was a part of a project that Jigsaw sponsored, I can vouch for his claim that Google and Jigsaw have entirely different (and often contrary) missions. I am a Google critic as much as everyone else here, but I can say with confidence that we would all be thrilled if Google took the same stand on censorship as is Jigsaw's.
  - malvosenior 8y ago
    I think the claim is fine if you disclose you're an employee or somehow related to the project (as you have done), but this really looks like astroturfing.
whatshisface 8y ago
>Google as a company (and Alphabet, probably more so) is almost certainly anti-censorship, philosophically; they just don't operate in a vacuum. Since when was being motivated to do wrong a mitigating condition for having done wrong? "Sorry officer, I wasn't going to steal it at first, but then I started wanting it."

freewizard 8y ago

Yes, dual standards because of dual internets. Alphabet is contributing to the trend of dual internets predicted by its own ex-CEO Eric Schmidt[1], "a Chinese-led internet and a non-Chinese internet led by America". [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/20/eric-schmidt-ex-google-ceo-predicts-internet-split-china.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/20/eric-schmidt-ex-google-ceo-p...

cmg 8y ago

It's blatant hypocrisy. Google has also de-ranked both Russia Today and Sputnik, but apparently doesn't doesn't consider that "censorship." https://www.pcmag.com/news/357494/google-to-de-rank-rt-sputnik-to-stop-misinformation https://www.pcmag.com/news/357494/google-to-de-rank-rt-sputn...

colordrops 8y ago

YouTube is another example of gross censorship.

gadders 8y ago

Google on Right Wing censoring: complicit, support it

malnourish 8y ago
How exactly is google working with governments to censor right wing media?

foobiekr 8y ago

Perhaps this project is to create demand for Google-China-like solutions in other countries. Venezuela is not a large market but perhaps they want a demo vehicle for Saudi Arabia to witness to help get them a deal (and a more favorable one than China). The most profitable SW projects often have a lot of reuse.

CharlesW 8y ago

Maybe the strategy is to service Sneetches with both Star-On and Star-Off machines.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sneetches_and_Other_Stories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sneetches_and_Other_Storie...