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Let's say you're a wealthy individual who loves the outdoors. You could donate or start a land trust that let's you and your friends have exclusive access to a

Let's say you're a wealthy individual who loves the outdoors. You could donate or start a land trust that let's you and your friends have exclusive access to a natural area. You could also write the donation of your taxes.

gambiting 8y ago
And....how is that a bad thing? If that money goes towards creating, maintaining and protecting natural land in its original state, then how is it bad?
- senorjazz 8y ago
  because you have just bought yourself a private park at a heavy discount because it is for "charity". Yet it is for your own exclusive use.
  - roenxi 8y ago
    Honestly it is a bit of a stretch to call that a bad outcome for anyone. It seems pretty obvious that in this example there will be a lot of benefit to society in a generation or two. The preservation benefits of the local wildlife alone sound like a win. The tax deduction seems pretty reasonable for giving up control of a large chunk of land. On the one hand, maybe our hypothetical wealthy person get special access. On the other hand, they have given up the right to change their mind and have the land logged and then strip-mined. The giving-up-of-an-economic-resource aspect is significant enough that a reasonable government could compensate the individual for it, the long term benefits seem to be present and our wealthy friend has committed himself to a course of action.
  - zip1234 8y ago
    A potential benefit being that it is preserved for the future and public funds are not used to preserve it. Yes, in the short term, someone gets a tax incentive. In the long term, that land is preserved.
  - gambiting 8y ago
    But if the alternative is no park at all, then surely an outcome where someone spends their own money to protect some land is again, a good thing.
shamelessjay 8y ago
you’re arguing from imagination
- wlesieutre 8y ago
  They're giving a hypothetical example of when "The only reason to give to charity is to benefit that charity" would not be true. In this situation, the reason to donate is to buy yourself a private park and get a tax break off of it.
prostoalex 8y ago
> start a land trust that let's you and your friends have exclusive access One of the IRS requirements for land trust is that it has a public benefit.
- jdavis703 8y ago
  I am not a tax lawyer, but public benefit doesn't just have to mean it's open for the public to hike through. I would imagine one could argue it's acting as a wildlife preserve, protecting views, etc. Even if the IRS came back and said the public must be granted access one could argue that they need to make improvements to the park to make it suitable for public use, and then drag their feet making said improvements. Once the improvements have actually been done they can do things like have the park only open weekdays 10am-4pm, charge for hiking permits, etc.
  - prostoalex 8y ago
    This older article suggests that while all of such things are possible, they attract higher level of interest from the IRS https://www.journalofaccountancy.com/issues/2011/nov/20103603.html https://www.journalofaccountancy.com/issues/2011/nov/2010360... "From 2003 through 2007 approximately 3,000 tax returns per year contained a charitable deduction for donation of a qualified conservation contribution. During this time and since, the IRS has continued to scrutinize deductions for contributions of conservation easements, often challenging them on issues including the quality of the appraiser and/or appraisal, the appraisal technique employed, failure to comply with substantiation requirements or protection of the conservation purpose. Tax practitioners need to be aware of the rules and procedures to successfully support these transactions and their tax treatment. They must be able to select a qualified appraiser and assess an appraisal for compliance with procedural and substantiation requirements. Then they must be able to structure and document these transactions appropriately and correctly calculate the deduction."
mrnobody_67 8y ago
Yep, Propublica had an amazing piece on this specific thing: https://www.propublica.org/article/conservation-easements-the-billion-dollar-loophole https://www.propublica.org/article/conservation-easements-th...

gambiting 8y ago

And....how is that a bad thing? If that money goes towards creating, maintaining and protecting natural land in its original state, then how is it bad?

senorjazz 8y ago
because you have just bought yourself a private park at a heavy discount because it is for "charity". Yet it is for your own exclusive use.
- roenxi 8y ago
  Honestly it is a bit of a stretch to call that a bad outcome for anyone. It seems pretty obvious that in this example there will be a lot of benefit to society in a generation or two. The preservation benefits of the local wildlife alone sound like a win. The tax deduction seems pretty reasonable for giving up control of a large chunk of land. On the one hand, maybe our hypothetical wealthy person get special access. On the other hand, they have given up the right to change their mind and have the land logged and then strip-mined. The giving-up-of-an-economic-resource aspect is significant enough that a reasonable government could compensate the individual for it, the long term benefits seem to be present and our wealthy friend has committed himself to a course of action.
- zip1234 8y ago
  A potential benefit being that it is preserved for the future and public funds are not used to preserve it. Yes, in the short term, someone gets a tax incentive. In the long term, that land is preserved.
- gambiting 8y ago
  But if the alternative is no park at all, then surely an outcome where someone spends their own money to protect some land is again, a good thing.

shamelessjay 8y ago

you’re arguing from imagination

wlesieutre 8y ago
They're giving a hypothetical example of when "The only reason to give to charity is to benefit that charity" would not be true. In this situation, the reason to donate is to buy yourself a private park and get a tax break off of it.

prostoalex 8y ago

> start a land trust that let's you and your friends have exclusive access One of the IRS requirements for land trust is that it has a public benefit.

jdavis703 8y ago
I am not a tax lawyer, but public benefit doesn't just have to mean it's open for the public to hike through. I would imagine one could argue it's acting as a wildlife preserve, protecting views, etc. Even if the IRS came back and said the public must be granted access one could argue that they need to make improvements to the park to make it suitable for public use, and then drag their feet making said improvements. Once the improvements have actually been done they can do things like have the park only open weekdays 10am-4pm, charge for hiking permits, etc.
- prostoalex 8y ago
  This older article suggests that while all of such things are possible, they attract higher level of interest from the IRS https://www.journalofaccountancy.com/issues/2011/nov/20103603.html https://www.journalofaccountancy.com/issues/2011/nov/2010360... "From 2003 through 2007 approximately 3,000 tax returns per year contained a charitable deduction for donation of a qualified conservation contribution. During this time and since, the IRS has continued to scrutinize deductions for contributions of conservation easements, often challenging them on issues including the quality of the appraiser and/or appraisal, the appraisal technique employed, failure to comply with substantiation requirements or protection of the conservation purpose. Tax practitioners need to be aware of the rules and procedures to successfully support these transactions and their tax treatment. They must be able to select a qualified appraiser and assess an appraisal for compliance with procedural and substantiation requirements. Then they must be able to structure and document these transactions appropriately and correctly calculate the deduction."

mrnobody_67 8y ago

Yep, Propublica had an amazing piece on this specific thing: https://www.propublica.org/article/conservation-easements-the-billion-dollar-loophole https://www.propublica.org/article/conservation-easements-th...