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Few people would disagree with having a healthier work/life balance, but you need to be careful to not conflate the approach with the success of the authors. Pe

Few people would disagree with having a healthier work/life balance, but you need to be careful to not conflate the approach with the success of the authors. People who've gone from nothing to becoming wealthy by not having meetings, working less, and maintaining a relaxing lifestyle are the exception, not the rule. If you want a shot at being as wealthy as they are, their advice is not going to help your odds, although you may well have a better life by other measures.

mistersquid 8y ago
> If you want a shot at being as wealthy as they are, their advice is not going to help your odds, although you may well have a better life by other measures. Your point about not conflating their lifestyles with their financial security is well taken. Their point is not about wealth but about health, not about money but about life. Rather than money grossly gathered, they propose a life well lived. However, it's important to keep in mind the obverse, which is that one should not strictly dissociate their lifestyles from their financial security. Recognizing that lifestyle and wealth are uncorrelated (or loosely correlated) avoids the facile prediction that overwork will yield wealth when, in reality, overwork most often yields a miserable, dissatisfying life without extravagant wealth.
- petercooper 8y ago
  Rather than money grossly gathered, they propose a life well lived. Agreed, but I find such advice feels weird from people who are extremely wealthy. It's a bit like if a top chef did a book on cooking healthy meals - it might be packed with great practices, but the advice would come from a place of advantage that could cause blind spots in giving advice to someone with limited access to fresh groceries, a tight budget, and perhaps several dependents with varying tastes. when, in reality, overwork most often yields a miserable, dissatisfying life without extravagant wealth. I can't really disagree as such, but while I'm only one data point (who comes from a non-rich, working class background) I can't think of anyone I know personally who worked really hard and that made their life functionally worse, although I guess dissatisfaction is hard to measure from the outside. I certainly know people who've reached a certain point and then improved their lives by working less thereafter, but I still think any advice to work less or chill out early in your career is pretty dangerous ground for younger people to consider.
  - mistersquid 8y ago
    > I certainly know people who've reached a certain point and then improved their lives by working less thereafter, but I still think any advice to work less or chill out early in your career is pretty dangerous ground for younger people to consider. That's a really good way of putting it, something I hadn't really considered. I still think it's too easy to find people who work so hard they suffer anxiety, sleeplessness, and ill health all while their personal relationships are neglected and/or attenuated. It seems clear there's a difficult balance to be struck between living well and living large (so to speak) and advice to the young and inexperienced from those who are successful and accomplished should always be judged critically. [This is a bit off-topic but my ability to upvote and downvote was nerfed long ago. I still do so, but my voting seems to have no affect on individual users' karma scores. I sometimes wonder if it's because I tend to upvote thoughtful responses to my own comments.]
bdavisx 8y ago
Do you have any proof of that? Are there studies that show companies that work "crazy" vs. "not crazy" are more successful? From my experience working harder didn't get me any further than not. Everything I've seen in life has shown me that who you know (and even more importantly who you parents introduce know, at least when you're younger) will get you a lot farther than how hard you work.
- petercooper 8y ago
  Are there studies that show companies that work "crazy" vs. "not crazy" are more successful? Company policies are a different topic than personal success. If my kids say they want to do well in their careers and have a certain level of material success (they might not, which is fine), I'm not going to tell them to work less, entertain fewer meetings with people, to never rush, refuse overtime, etc. Those are luxuries they can choose later in their career once they're on their way. who you know will get you a lot farther than how hard you work I agree, but if you don't know anyone (and I certainly did not) then working hard does, in my experience, yield better results than not working hard. It's like going to the gym - if you have the right genetics and body, you have a huge advantage, but putting in the work is better than nothing if you don't.

mistersquid 8y ago

> If you want a shot at being as wealthy as they are, their advice is not going to help your odds, although you may well have a better life by other measures. Your point about not conflating their lifestyles with their financial security is well taken. Their point is not about wealth but about health, not about money but about life. Rather than money grossly gathered, they propose a life well lived. However, it's important to keep in mind the obverse, which is that one should not strictly dissociate their lifestyles from their financial security. Recognizing that lifestyle and wealth are uncorrelated (or loosely correlated) avoids the facile prediction that overwork will yield wealth when, in reality, overwork most often yields a miserable, dissatisfying life without extravagant wealth.

petercooper 8y ago
Rather than money grossly gathered, they propose a life well lived. Agreed, but I find such advice feels weird from people who are extremely wealthy. It's a bit like if a top chef did a book on cooking healthy meals - it might be packed with great practices, but the advice would come from a place of advantage that could cause blind spots in giving advice to someone with limited access to fresh groceries, a tight budget, and perhaps several dependents with varying tastes. when, in reality, overwork most often yields a miserable, dissatisfying life without extravagant wealth. I can't really disagree as such, but while I'm only one data point (who comes from a non-rich, working class background) I can't think of anyone I know personally who worked really hard and that made their life functionally worse, although I guess dissatisfaction is hard to measure from the outside. I certainly know people who've reached a certain point and then improved their lives by working less thereafter, but I still think any advice to work less or chill out early in your career is pretty dangerous ground for younger people to consider.
- mistersquid 8y ago
  > I certainly know people who've reached a certain point and then improved their lives by working less thereafter, but I still think any advice to work less or chill out early in your career is pretty dangerous ground for younger people to consider. That's a really good way of putting it, something I hadn't really considered. I still think it's too easy to find people who work so hard they suffer anxiety, sleeplessness, and ill health all while their personal relationships are neglected and/or attenuated. It seems clear there's a difficult balance to be struck between living well and living large (so to speak) and advice to the young and inexperienced from those who are successful and accomplished should always be judged critically. [This is a bit off-topic but my ability to upvote and downvote was nerfed long ago. I still do so, but my voting seems to have no affect on individual users' karma scores. I sometimes wonder if it's because I tend to upvote thoughtful responses to my own comments.]

bdavisx 8y ago

Do you have any proof of that? Are there studies that show companies that work "crazy" vs. "not crazy" are more successful? From my experience working harder didn't get me any further than not. Everything I've seen in life has shown me that who you know (and even more importantly who you parents introduce know, at least when you're younger) will get you a lot farther than how hard you work.

petercooper 8y ago
Are there studies that show companies that work "crazy" vs. "not crazy" are more successful? Company policies are a different topic than personal success. If my kids say they want to do well in their careers and have a certain level of material success (they might not, which is fine), I'm not going to tell them to work less, entertain fewer meetings with people, to never rush, refuse overtime, etc. Those are luxuries they can choose later in their career once they're on their way. who you know will get you a lot farther than how hard you work I agree, but if you don't know anyone (and I certainly did not) then working hard does, in my experience, yield better results than not working hard. It's like going to the gym - if you have the right genetics and body, you have a huge advantage, but putting in the work is better than nothing if you don't.