4 ms·

Gaza is ¬1M people and has received tens of BN$ of aid. Israel has withdrawn all its forces from Gaza 10 years ago. At what stage do Gazan start behaving like

Gaza is ¬1M people and has received tens of BN$ of aid. Israel has withdrawn all its forces from Gaza 10 years ago. At what stage do Gazan start behaving like responsible adults rather than blaming the Great Satan?

sgift 8y ago
Probably the moment the 'Great Satan' stops to control all flow of goods into and out of the Gaza. It's easy to say Israel has withdrawn when all they did was move a few kilometers further out.
- firic 8y ago
  What would you recommend Israel do when Hamas's charter literally says that they what to destroy Israel and the Jews? Hamas is Gaza's elected party and letting them import weapons is very bad for Israeli civilians.
  - sinaz 8y ago
    The only solution for the Gaza-Israel crisis is mutual destruction.
    - dang 8y ago
      We've banned this account. You can't post like this to HN, even in a shitty flamewar like this thread. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - lucideer 8y ago
    Hamas is Israel's creation. Fatah were the dominant political force in Gaza over the decades and decades of oppression until Hamas were finally founded more recently as an attempt at firmer and less tolerant response to Israel.
    - skrebbel 8y ago
      Sure, but you didn't answer the question. Even if Hamas and even Gaza are totally Israel's fault, the fact that Hamas wants to destroy Israel makes some of Israel's actions pretty damn rational. What else can they do? "Shit, we pushed these Palestinians way too hard for way too long. Fair enough, they can bomb the shit out of our country now". All that said, I'm not invested in the matter, and I'm a geopolitics noob, but I wonder what would happen if Israel would, unprovoked and unilaterally, drop all restrictions, recognize Palestina as a country and supply as much financial aid as is needed to rebuild the place. Just overnight. Wouldn't Hamas's support crumble instantly? Wouldn't the atmosphere be exactly like when they took down the Berlin wall? I mean, would Palestinian combatants truly use the newly opened borders to immediately drive into Tel Aviv and shoot everybody? Tbh I don't see it.
      - lucideer 8y ago
        Exactly. For all of Hamas' talk, it's not only reactive, it also results in a disproportionately small level of anti-Israel violence in practice due mostly to lack of resources (comparatively). If Israel withdrew all restrictions unilaterally, would there be offensive actions by Hamas: almost certainly. But they'd likely be on a scale many orders of magnitude smaller than Israel's actions to date, and I doubt they'd be sustained.
        amitport 8y ago
        Seriously? So following your logic the US should just let al qaeda access to weapons and let them vent off in NY. "would there be offensive actions by [al qaeda]: almost certainly. But they'd likely be on a scale many orders of magnitude smaller than [US's actions in Afghanistan] to date, and I doubt they'd be sustained" I hope I'll never live in a country that will allow their citizens to die in order to appease some murderous religious group.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - deletemenow 8y ago
    It would be great if Israel was wiped off the map. No more conflict, no more need for america to give billions in aid, not as many jews subverting nations. Win, win, win. If only we could remove all the jews from america, put them in israel then wipe it off the earth, that would be a real solution to the problem.
padraic7a 8y ago
Israel continues to block access to 35% of the arable land in Gaza, and to prevent access to 85% of it's waters. The Israeli blockade prevents access to food, fuel and medical supplies.
liotier 8y ago
> At what stage do Gazan start behaving like responsible adults rather than blaming the Great Satan? I stopped breaking your legs - at what stage do you start behaving like a responsible adult and run again rather than blaming me ? Also, Israel's chokehold on Gaza has relaxed - but it is still a chokehold. And Egypt isn't helping either. How do you expect Gaza to function without an airport (destroyed by Israel), without a significant harbour and without even reasonably permeable land crossings ? For some recent history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip
Synaesthesia 8y ago
Israel withdrew its forces to the border, but still intervened often. It controls the population register, who and what gets in and out including essential medicines and people who need urgen medical care. As noted it restricts access to much of the farmland and fishing areas. It’s for these reasons that many consider Gaza to still be occupied territory.
safgasCVS 8y ago
So lets get this straight - the single variable that explains the situation of millions of people happens to be a subjective opinion of the moral failings of people you've never met. Nice!
pjc50 8y ago
> withdrawn all its forces from Gaza 10 years ago That doesn't include airstrikes which are regular and ongoing: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/gaza-air-strikes-latest-updates-israel-rockets-palestinians-killed-a8447726.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/gaza-ai...
- amitport 8y ago
  no contradiction there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incendiary_balloon#Gaza_Strip_use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incendiary_balloon#Gaza_Strip_... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant#Violence_against_Jews https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant#Violence_agains... (just a few samples) Israel withdrawn but there is still an ongoing (sometimes quiet) war.

sgift 8y ago

Probably the moment the 'Great Satan' stops to control all flow of goods into and out of the Gaza. It's easy to say Israel has withdrawn when all they did was move a few kilometers further out.

firic 8y ago
What would you recommend Israel do when Hamas's charter literally says that they what to destroy Israel and the Jews? Hamas is Gaza's elected party and letting them import weapons is very bad for Israeli civilians.
- sinaz 8y ago
  The only solution for the Gaza-Israel crisis is mutual destruction.
  - dang 8y ago
    We've banned this account. You can't post like this to HN, even in a shitty flamewar like this thread. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- lucideer 8y ago
  Hamas is Israel's creation. Fatah were the dominant political force in Gaza over the decades and decades of oppression until Hamas were finally founded more recently as an attempt at firmer and less tolerant response to Israel.
  - skrebbel 8y ago
    Sure, but you didn't answer the question. Even if Hamas and even Gaza are totally Israel's fault, the fact that Hamas wants to destroy Israel makes some of Israel's actions pretty damn rational. What else can they do? "Shit, we pushed these Palestinians way too hard for way too long. Fair enough, they can bomb the shit out of our country now". All that said, I'm not invested in the matter, and I'm a geopolitics noob, but I wonder what would happen if Israel would, unprovoked and unilaterally, drop all restrictions, recognize Palestina as a country and supply as much financial aid as is needed to rebuild the place. Just overnight. Wouldn't Hamas's support crumble instantly? Wouldn't the atmosphere be exactly like when they took down the Berlin wall? I mean, would Palestinian combatants truly use the newly opened borders to immediately drive into Tel Aviv and shoot everybody? Tbh I don't see it.
    - lucideer 8y ago
      Exactly. For all of Hamas' talk, it's not only reactive, it also results in a disproportionately small level of anti-Israel violence in practice due mostly to lack of resources (comparatively). If Israel withdrew all restrictions unilaterally, would there be offensive actions by Hamas: almost certainly. But they'd likely be on a scale many orders of magnitude smaller than Israel's actions to date, and I doubt they'd be sustained.
      - amitport 8y ago
        Seriously? So following your logic the US should just let al qaeda access to weapons and let them vent off in NY. "would there be offensive actions by [al qaeda]: almost certainly. But they'd likely be on a scale many orders of magnitude smaller than [US's actions in Afghanistan] to date, and I doubt they'd be sustained" I hope I'll never live in a country that will allow their citizens to die in order to appease some murderous religious group.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- deletemenow 8y ago
  It would be great if Israel was wiped off the map. No more conflict, no more need for america to give billions in aid, not as many jews subverting nations. Win, win, win. If only we could remove all the jews from america, put them in israel then wipe it off the earth, that would be a real solution to the problem.

padraic7a 8y ago

Israel continues to block access to 35% of the arable land in Gaza, and to prevent access to 85% of it's waters. The Israeli blockade prevents access to food, fuel and medical supplies.

liotier 8y ago

> At what stage do Gazan start behaving like responsible adults rather than blaming the Great Satan? I stopped breaking your legs - at what stage do you start behaving like a responsible adult and run again rather than blaming me ? Also, Israel's chokehold on Gaza has relaxed - but it is still a chokehold. And Egypt isn't helping either. How do you expect Gaza to function without an airport (destroyed by Israel), without a significant harbour and without even reasonably permeable land crossings ? For some recent history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip

Synaesthesia 8y ago

Israel withdrew its forces to the border, but still intervened often. It controls the population register, who and what gets in and out including essential medicines and people who need urgen medical care. As noted it restricts access to much of the farmland and fishing areas. It’s for these reasons that many consider Gaza to still be occupied territory.

safgasCVS 8y ago

So lets get this straight - the single variable that explains the situation of millions of people happens to be a subjective opinion of the moral failings of people you've never met. Nice!

pjc50 8y ago

> withdrawn all its forces from Gaza 10 years ago That doesn't include airstrikes which are regular and ongoing: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/gaza-air-strikes-latest-updates-israel-rockets-palestinians-killed-a8447726.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/gaza-ai...

amitport 8y ago
no contradiction there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incendiary_balloon#Gaza_Strip_use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incendiary_balloon#Gaza_Strip_... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant#Violence_against_Jews https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant#Violence_agains... (just a few samples) Israel withdrawn but there is still an ongoing (sometimes quiet) war.