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That's an incredible article. It must have taken some amazing mental gymnastics to talk about the situation in Gaza and Palestine without laying any responsibil

• yahoo234 8y ago
  Gaza is ¬1M people and has received tens of BN$ of aid. Israel has withdrawn all its forces from Gaza 10 years ago. At what stage do Gazan start behaving like responsible adults rather than blaming the Great Satan?
  • sgift 8y ago
    Probably the moment the 'Great Satan' stops to control all flow of goods into and out of the Gaza. It's easy to say Israel has withdrawn when all they did was move a few kilometers further out.
    • firic 8y ago
      What would you recommend Israel do when Hamas's charter literally says that they what to destroy Israel and the Jews? Hamas is Gaza's elected party and letting them import weapons is very bad for Israeli civilians.
      • sinaz 8y ago
        The only solution for the Gaza-Israel crisis is mutual destruction.
        • dang 8y ago
          We've banned this account. You can't post like this to HN, even in a shitty flamewar like this thread. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      • lucideer 8y ago
        Hamas is Israel's creation. Fatah were the dominant political force in Gaza over the decades and decades of oppression until Hamas were finally founded more recently as an attempt at firmer and less tolerant response to Israel.
        • skrebbel 8y ago
          Sure, but you didn't answer the question. Even if Hamas and even Gaza are totally Israel's fault, the fact that Hamas wants to destroy Israel makes some of Israel's actions pretty damn rational. What else can they do? "Shit, we pushed these Palestinians way too hard for way too long. Fair enough, they can bomb the shit out of our country now". All that said, I'm not invested in the matter, and I'm a geopolitics noob, but I wonder what would happen if Israel would, unprovoked and unilaterally, drop all restrictions, recognize Palestina as a country and supply as much financial aid as is needed to rebuild the place. Just overnight. Wouldn't Hamas's support crumble instantly? Wouldn't the atmosphere be exactly like when they took down the Berlin wall? I mean, would Palestinian combatants truly use the newly opened borders to immediately drive into Tel Aviv and shoot everybody? Tbh I don't see it.
          • lucideer 8y ago
            Exactly. For all of Hamas' talk, it's not only reactive, it also results in a disproportionately small level of anti-Israel violence in practice due mostly to lack of resources (comparatively). If Israel withdrew all restrictions unilaterally, would there be offensive actions by Hamas: almost certainly. But they'd likely be on a scale many orders of magnitude smaller than Israel's actions to date, and I doubt they'd be sustained.
            • amitport 8y ago
              Seriously? So following your logic the US should just let al qaeda access to weapons and let them vent off in NY. "would there be offensive actions by [al qaeda]: almost certainly. But they'd likely be on a scale many orders of magnitude smaller than [US's actions in Afghanistan] to date, and I doubt they'd be sustained" I hope I'll never live in a country that will allow their citizens to die in order to appease some murderous religious group.
      • deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      • deletemenow 8y ago
        It would be great if Israel was wiped off the map. No more conflict, no more need for america to give billions in aid, not as many jews subverting nations. Win, win, win. If only we could remove all the jews from america, put them in israel then wipe it off the earth, that would be a real solution to the problem.
  • padraic7a 8y ago
    Israel continues to block access to 35% of the arable land in Gaza, and to prevent access to 85% of it's waters. The Israeli blockade prevents access to food, fuel and medical supplies.
  • liotier 8y ago
    > At what stage do Gazan start behaving like responsible adults rather than blaming the Great Satan? I stopped breaking your legs - at what stage do you start behaving like a responsible adult and run again rather than blaming me ? Also, Israel's chokehold on Gaza has relaxed - but it is still a chokehold. And Egypt isn't helping either. How do you expect Gaza to function without an airport (destroyed by Israel), without a significant harbour and without even reasonably permeable land crossings ? For some recent history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip
  • Synaesthesia 8y ago
    Israel withdrew its forces to the border, but still intervened often. It controls the population register, who and what gets in and out including essential medicines and people who need urgen medical care. As noted it restricts access to much of the farmland and fishing areas. It’s for these reasons that many consider Gaza to still be occupied territory.
  • safgasCVS 8y ago
    So lets get this straight - the single variable that explains the situation of millions of people happens to be a subjective opinion of the moral failings of people you've never met. Nice!
  • pjc50 8y ago
    > withdrawn all its forces from Gaza 10 years ago That doesn't include airstrikes which are regular and ongoing: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/gaza-air-strikes-latest-updates-israel-rockets-palestinians-killed-a8447726.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/gaza-ai...
    • amitport 8y ago
      no contradiction there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incendiary_balloon#Gaza_Strip_use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incendiary_balloon#Gaza_Strip_... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant#Violence_against_Jews https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant#Violence_agains... (just a few samples) Israel withdrawn but there is still an ongoing (sometimes quiet) war.
• jackthrow1 8y ago
  Sir, gently revoke thyself from this thread with your blatant antisemitism/antizionisn.
  • PlutoIsAPlanet 8y ago
    Why are you confusing antisemitism and antizionism? The poster is criticising the actions of a state, that's not anti-semitism in any way. He didn't even say anything about jews or judaism.
    • MarceColl 8y ago
      Don't bother, he created a throwaway just to say stupid shit. There's no point in following his game, downvote, flag and ignore is the best course of action.
    • tariandbari 8y ago
      I don't know if the OP of this thread is part of the antizionism camp. I can only assert that he is an idiot (He looks at the map and cannot see the long border that is shared between Gaza and Egypt) BUT antisemitism == antizionism as it simply design to strip Jews from their own homeland. Antizionism is not part of a global anti nationality movement that says "Let's abolish the 57 Islamic countries, the 21 Arab countries and this one Jewish state" its one and only goal is to deny from the Jews what many other have.
      • PlutoIsAPlanet 8y ago
        I don't think anyone who claims to be anti-zionist apart from the far-right of the spectrum calls for the destruction of Israel. The "homeland" reason is stupid. Religion should have no say in politics, including the founding of states.
        • tariandbari 8y ago
          What you think or don't think doesn't matter, the fact is that being an anti-zionist is, by definition, being pro Israel destruction. If it is not a Jewish state it is something else. Religion has a say in politics, stupid or not, Hamas which controls Gaza is a religious organization, there 57 countries that identify themselves as Islamic nations. The Jews deserve one such state as well. That being said, Jews is a religion as well as people. If it was only a religion (convenient yet false argument) the Nazis would let them convert instead of exterminating 6 million of them.
• Pica_soO 8y ago
  Yes, israel is the only super-powered country in the region. To blame for all that is awry in the region. I once made holidays on a cruise ship- and as soon as we neared haifa the port, i suffered erectile dysfunction. I blame those xanadoonians! At this point, israel is about to become a new Arabic word for "shirking ones responsibility as a adult" - that's certainly what i hear when they rage on and on about it. Of course, the grapes might be sour, because if your neighbor gets something done, with his piece of dessert in the sun, and you dont- something uncomfortable creeps into the daylight. Maybe not all cultures create equally worthwhile outcomes - given the current circumstances.
• tariandbari 8y ago
  It takes some real unique ability to look at Gaza's map and missing the fact that it has a very long border with ... Egypt. So even if Gaza is an "open air prison" there is more than one guard to it.
  • partycoder 8y ago
    The border with Egypt is walled. The wall also extends underground to prevent smuggling. The Gaza strip cannot be accessed by air or sea either.
    • beagle3 8y ago
      Indeed. And not by Israel[0] ; I think the reason Israel gets most of the criticism here is that Israel is a western, democratic party, but by no means is it the only one to blame in this story. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza%E2%80%93Egypt_border#Buffer_zone_by_Egypt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza%E2%80%93Egypt_border#Buff...
    • amitport 8y ago
      Are you suggesting that the border with Egypt should allow smuggling? The point is that it is a border with Egypt, not Israel. Goods can (and do) enter from there.
      • deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      • partycoder 8y ago
        > Are you suggesting that the border with Egypt should allow smuggling? No, I am not. I am describing that wall. > Goods can (and do) enter from there. No, they don't. Only people are allowed through the Gaza/Egypt border (controlled by the EU).
        • amitport 8y ago
          Fine, so the EU is seiging Gaza with Egypt. Though I think your data is not up to date the important fact remains the same: Israel does not control that border. Talking about the embrago and selectivly only mentioning Israel is a curious thing and to me it seems biased against that non-EU non-muslim state.
• bengrunfeld 8y ago
  Notice how we're not actually discussing tech in Gaza, but rather how Israel needs to be sanctioned/destroyed/annihilated. That was the original intent of this article. "Tech in Gaza" was just clickbait, but nearly 50% of the article discussed the war with Israel. This was a CHEAP TRICK to stir up discussion about the war. Once again, the Palestinians who actually want to do something good have been turned into little puppets for someone else's political agenda. You should all be ashamed of yourselves for taking part in it! UPDATE: Of the 5 pieces of non-text media in the article, 3 are not about tech at all, but rather about war and politics.
• golergka 8y ago
  > Israel's blockade contrvene's international law. I'm not an expert in international law, but blaming a country for protecting it's citizens from being bombed into oblivion is just nuts. The only thing this "blockade" is intended to do is to stop Hamas from building rockets. Everything that cannot be used to build rockets goes in and out through any crossing every day of the week.
  • georgehdd 8y ago
    That's factually incorrect. There are things that go in/out of Gaza but in very limited supply. The blockade (why is it in quotes?) was created more than 10 years ago for political reasons as a way to pressure the people of Gaza to turn against Hamas. Ever since, it achieved the exact opposite. To remind you, ~2 million people have been living under this siege since then. Don't fool your self - putting 2 million people under siege is not self protection. PS - the US definition for terrorism is "the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.". Just saying.
    • golemiprague 8y ago
      The blockade is because Gaza is in a state of war with Israel, if they declare that they are willing to live in peace and stop the hostilities against Israel and recognise Israel there will be no blockade like there is no blockade on Egypt or Jordan. It is their choice, Israel not suppose to give them anything until they recognise Israel. If anything it is the Gazans that blockade Israel, if any Israeli cross the border to Gaza they will be killed. But so far the Hamas charter calls for the destruction of Israel, they are like the Nazis and if things go their ways that's exactly what they will do, a complete annihilation of all the Jews in Israel, the same thing Arab countries did all over the middle east which is now ethnically cleaned from Jews, most of them found refuge in Israel. Israel is doing them a favour, America and Britain destroyed 3 countries, Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya on much less than the risk that the Gazans are for Israel. At least when Israeli soldiers fight and "blockade" Gaza they can see their homes if they just turn back.
  • dingoegret 8y ago
• okyougotmenow 8y ago
  Really jogs the noggin' as to why this particular country receives the preferential treatment it does on the international stage in spite of actions that would have any other country sanctioned or bombed to smithereens. I can't quite figure it out! It's also pretty interesting how this comment was able to draw out so many purely organic defensive comments, more quickly than even a thread critical of China would.
  • saiya-jin 8y ago
    Look where it is - middle east. It is by far the most US-friendly country in whole region, even if something would go wrong with all muslim western-aligned governments, US can rest assured that Israel will remain an ally. They don't have that many other options I think. When politics, power and money enter the game, in region so rich in oil (meaning trillions of $$), some humanitarian concerns are thrown quickly out of the window because 'priorities'. I find it hilarious in the worst way possible - Israel, by definition jewish country (although not 100%), is running probably biggest concentration camp in the world these days. History doing some 5-dimensional circles and laughing on all of us. Palestinians are not helping much to improve their own situation, but after 60+ years behind the fence, who can blame them.
    • okyougotmenow 8y ago
      Is Israel an American ally or is America an Israeli ally? Hard to say when a significant proportion of congress has dual Israeli citizenship. What exactly do we gain from fighting endless wars in the middle east? Israel seems to benefit much more from the destabilization and destruction of their neighbors than we do. Even Wikipedia does not shy away from detailing the Yinon Plan.
  • dogma1138 8y ago
    There is the other side of the coin, the conflict is and always was a relatively "meaningless" conflict as far as the scope goes from any point you look at including casualties however the level of attention it receives is also disproportionate just as much if not more as the so called preferential treatment you claim it has.
• beagle3 8y ago
  The mental gymnastics here are required for the other side too, e.g. elections were last held in Gaza in 2006 or so; it's not remotely a democracy or republic, control is maintained by violence, see e.g. [0]. Every side of this conflict is a villain, and depending how far back you want to go, that may include the British, who created war and instability where they pulled out, in Palestine and in India/Pakistan (smart, but not very nice..) I think the bottom line is, one may argue about how much of the responsibility lies with any participant, but it is undeniable that all have blame; and the article tries to discuss "coding in a conflict zone" rather than the conflict, and does it rather well IMHO. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip#Post-2006_elections_violence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip#Post-2006_elections...
  • FactolSarin 8y ago
    Gaza doesn't have true autonomy, though. The people of Gaza can't actually vote in the elections that matter to them, i.e. those of Israel. Israel controls the airspace, the ports, and much of the land while claiming they've "disengaged." There's no basis for a free government when the people can't exercise any kind of sovereignty.
    • beagle3 8y ago
      I fail to understand your reasoning: the people of Gaza voted Hamas in, much increasing the intensity of the conflict; Hamas then essentially canceled elections - guaranteeing that no one will try to reduce the conflict. And somehow, that is of no consequence because they cannot vote in the Israeli elections? And yet, somehow, before Hamas, and still in the places where Fatah rules (and elections were not canceled) the situation is infinitely better.
      • dingoegret 8y ago
        I fail to understand your reasoning. There is no free movement or freedom at all in Gaza thanks to Israeli siege and daily bombardments. There can be no sovereignty under these conditions. The antecedent of a previous election doesn't just suddenly cancel out the precedent or current situation.
• shmerl 8y ago
  And Hamas turned it into fascist state for its own population. I suppose opponents of blockade prefer a fascist state with access to weapons import.
• maratd 8y ago
  > Instead the Israeli stance is noted as being the same as Egypt Because it is.
  • NeedMoreTea 8y ago
    The UN disagrees.
    • maratd 8y ago
      > The UN disagrees. The UN is a political animal controlled by political interests. Common sense can be used here. Gaza shares more border with Egypt than with Israel.
  • FactolSarin 8y ago
    Egypt doesn't control Gaza airspace or ports. Israel does.
    • maratd 8y ago
      No, but they do control their border with Gaza, which is as locked down as those ports you mention.
    • golemiprague 8y ago
      Gaza doesn't vow to destroy Egypt and to conquer their country, they do when it comes to Israel. If Gaza recognise Israel and agree to have normal relationship with it nobody will close their airspace or port.