6 ms·

Come to Europe, we're all super mediocre here and it's great. Less snarky, I find that attaching your identity to what you do is a profoundly American thing. "

Come to Europe, we're all super mediocre here and it's great. Less snarky, I find that attaching your identity to what you do is a profoundly American thing. "I'm a Rubyist", "I'm a runner", "I'm a Republican". The moment you are what you do, everything becomes so.. important. I'm not sure if this is just my filter bubble, but most people I know "like to make demos" (as in Demoscene[0]), "enjoy speed cycling on Sunday mornings", "run a business" and "voted for the social democrats last election". It's not just a semantic difference. BTW, if you really want to experience what I'm talking about, visit a demoparty. Some people making demos are really absurdly good at what they do, it's daunting (and still totally worthless btw). Nevertheless you'll see lots of other people make demos, and really do their best at it. They know they're going to lose the compo if at least one of the big shots have an entry, but they don't care. It's an absolutely wonderful experience. (and very encouraging) (and it sometimes makes you put out horrible crap that you're ashamed of later but hey it was fun at the time) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demoscene https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demoscene

kerouanton 8y ago
+1 for your vision. I also love demoscene and am a former scener. The idea is not to be the best. The philosophy is to experiement, try, and have fun while discovering what we, or others, can achieve. My hobby is electronics. I'm learning every time I practice and the fun and rewarding part is that there is still a lot to learn and improve. That's what a hobby should be.
- apexalpha 8y ago
  >I also love demoscene and am a former scener. :D this is exactly what OP is about: you are a former scener? Or did you enjoy being part of the demoscene on your thursday nights?
  - skrebbel 8y ago
    Well I think he accidentally debunked me. Most people in the demoscene indeed refer to themselves as (demo)sceners. Hmm. I wonder how wrong this makes me about Republicans and Rubyists.
    - enqk 8y ago
      I always felt dirty when I said "I'm a scener" Instead I prefer to say "I'm in the demoscene" I've made demos, but I don't like attaching my whole identity to a group of people, it's close to cultish. On the other hand it makes you feel good about yourself and allows one to attach one's status to other people's status. For this reason it is inevitable that people would do it.
  - kerouanton 8y ago
    My english sucks. I'm a former demomaker, that's more precise. https://csdb.dk/scener/?id=21588 https://csdb.dk/scener/?id=21588
- Pica_soO 8y ago
  This, is the essence of life.
vbuwivbiu 8y ago
indeed, the verb 'to be' is reductive has-a > is-a
JohnBooty 8y ago
Hmmm. I have to say, I'm an American and I think we're definitely that way about our professions ("I'm a __________") but I don't really recognize the "hobbyists" described in the article. > BTW, if you really want to experience what I'm > talking about, visit a demoparty. We have lots of that here in America! Well, not demoscene meets (sadly!) but all the people I know who have passionate hobbies don't really "identify" with them. I looooooooove playing tennis (2-3x per week) and I'm always trying to improve along with my wife but I don't have a goal to compete in tournaments or anything. I don't typically say "I'm a tennis player." I'm also passionate about being an audio hobbyist but I'm happy wading in the shallow end of the pool; I don't even design my own speakers, I'm happy using the designs others have made and putting my own finishes on them. There are a few competitions in this hobby, but they are friendly and collegial and collaborative sort of like the demo parties... well, except all the guys are 55+ years old. I have friends that are very very passionate about art, running, etc but I don't see them really shaping their identity around those things. MORE IMPORTANTLY THOUGH: thank you for making my morning brighter by mentioning the demo scene =)
- skrebbel 8y ago
  > Well, not demoscene meets (sadly!) Time to get your ass to Pittsburgh next month! :-) http://www.demosplash.org/ http://www.demosplash.org/
  - JohnBooty 8y ago
    oh! That's actually possibly within driving distance...
dsfyu404ed 8y ago
>Less snarky, I find that attaching your identity to what you do is a profoundly American thing. "I'm a Rubyist", "I'm a runner", "I'm a Republican". The moment you are what you do, everything becomes so.. important. For the better part of a millennium people in Europe changed professions so little from generation to generation that it became baked into their last names in some places.
- buboard 8y ago
  I dont think that s the way it goes. Its just that if there was 1 smith in a village he was identified as such. The occupation had to be rare and important ( eg they wouldn t call you farmer. His children would keep the name regardless of their job (given that ppl had a lot of kids and the job had to be rare it s impossible that they d all do the same job)
  - maigret 8y ago
    Many Germans are actually named “Bauer” (which means “Farmer“), or variations of it.
- zamber 8y ago
  I guess like Smith, Miller, Taylor, Walker, Baker, etc. are in the US.
cableshaft 8y ago
While Americans would say "I'm a _insert_hobby_or_job_or_responsibility_here_," they don't necessarily limit themselves to just one item. Like in my case, at this point in time I would say I'm a software engineer, a video and board game designer, a writer, and a hiker (well maybe just one or two depending on the context, but if I was writing a Twitter bio or something it'd include these things). If I was a mother or a father, I'd probably say that (most parents do), and if I cared enough about religion or politics, I'd probably include that also, but I don't really identify with anything too strongly there (or what to highlight or emphasize it), or if I cared about a specific identity label (gay, sapiosexual, polyamorous, genderfluid, whatever), that tends to get included also nowadays, especially with younger people.
freeflight 8y ago
> Less snarky, I find that attaching your identity to what you do is a profoundly American thing. "I'm a Rubyist", "I'm a runner", "I'm a Republican". The moment you are what you do, everything becomes so.. important. This is also a very German thing, especially due to the German apprenticeship system. Many Germans, that don't go into higher education, do an apprenticeship in their teens and often end up working in that line of work for the rest of their lives. As doing another apprenticeship when you are older, and living on your own, is often not feasible due to the low income. If somebody doesn't have either of the two, higher education or an apprenticeship they are usually considered a "nobody" as ones educational background is one of the main defining factors in German social hierarchy, in which "unlearned" occupations are generally looked down upon. It's a very shortsighted view on society and in parts responsible for the current shortage of nurses and other jobs with difficult working circumstances and low social standing.
- theshrike79 8y ago
  So THIS is why Germans prefix their name with "Doctor" or some such, which feels weird for us non-Germans.
  - freeflight 8y ago
    Yup, many Germans just love their honorifics, even if they are only for show, it shows their "standing/accomplishments" and thus is an extremely important part of their social identity, that's why many insist on using their full honorifics when referring to them: "I'm not just a professor in XY, I'm also a doctor in XYZ and ZYX!". That's why bought honorific titles, usually by foreign universities/academies are a somewhat popular business in Germany. [0] It's the same deal with "siezen" and "duzen", some Germans take a lot of offense if you simply "du" them. To them, that's a sign of lacking respect towards them. Imho Germans are very similar to Japanese in a lot of these things. The form is often way more important than function, at least in a lot of social matters. [0] https://title-town.eu/ https://title-town.eu/
segmondy 8y ago
You're what you do. There's a reason we have names such as Fisher, Smith, Baker, Hunter, Piper, Bishop, Archer, Booker, Knight, etc. I'm a programmer. It's my core identity.
- sanderjd 8y ago
  As the parent points out, there's no reason this must be the case. I'd encourage you to open your mind to the possibility of separating your core identity from being a programmer. It's totally up to you of course! But believe me when I say there's way more to life than this.
  - segmondy 8y ago
    Nah, I love my life. People that don't love what they do everyday for a living can't understand.

kerouanton 8y ago

+1 for your vision. I also love demoscene and am a former scener. The idea is not to be the best. The philosophy is to experiement, try, and have fun while discovering what we, or others, can achieve. My hobby is electronics. I'm learning every time I practice and the fun and rewarding part is that there is still a lot to learn and improve. That's what a hobby should be.

apexalpha 8y ago
>I also love demoscene and am a former scener. :D this is exactly what OP is about: you are a former scener? Or did you enjoy being part of the demoscene on your thursday nights?
- skrebbel 8y ago
  Well I think he accidentally debunked me. Most people in the demoscene indeed refer to themselves as (demo)sceners. Hmm. I wonder how wrong this makes me about Republicans and Rubyists.
  - enqk 8y ago
    I always felt dirty when I said "I'm a scener" Instead I prefer to say "I'm in the demoscene" I've made demos, but I don't like attaching my whole identity to a group of people, it's close to cultish. On the other hand it makes you feel good about yourself and allows one to attach one's status to other people's status. For this reason it is inevitable that people would do it.
- kerouanton 8y ago
  My english sucks. I'm a former demomaker, that's more precise. https://csdb.dk/scener/?id=21588 https://csdb.dk/scener/?id=21588
Pica_soO 8y ago
This, is the essence of life.

vbuwivbiu 8y ago

indeed, the verb 'to be' is reductive has-a > is-a

JohnBooty 8y ago

Hmmm. I have to say, I'm an American and I think we're definitely that way about our professions ("I'm a __________") but I don't really recognize the "hobbyists" described in the article. > BTW, if you really want to experience what I'm > talking about, visit a demoparty. We have lots of that here in America! Well, not demoscene meets (sadly!) but all the people I know who have passionate hobbies don't really "identify" with them. I looooooooove playing tennis (2-3x per week) and I'm always trying to improve along with my wife but I don't have a goal to compete in tournaments or anything. I don't typically say "I'm a tennis player." I'm also passionate about being an audio hobbyist but I'm happy wading in the shallow end of the pool; I don't even design my own speakers, I'm happy using the designs others have made and putting my own finishes on them. There are a few competitions in this hobby, but they are friendly and collegial and collaborative sort of like the demo parties... well, except all the guys are 55+ years old. I have friends that are very very passionate about art, running, etc but I don't see them really shaping their identity around those things. MORE IMPORTANTLY THOUGH: thank you for making my morning brighter by mentioning the demo scene =)

skrebbel 8y ago
> Well, not demoscene meets (sadly!) Time to get your ass to Pittsburgh next month! :-) http://www.demosplash.org/ http://www.demosplash.org/
- JohnBooty 8y ago
  oh! That's actually possibly within driving distance...

dsfyu404ed 8y ago

>Less snarky, I find that attaching your identity to what you do is a profoundly American thing. "I'm a Rubyist", "I'm a runner", "I'm a Republican". The moment you are what you do, everything becomes so.. important. For the better part of a millennium people in Europe changed professions so little from generation to generation that it became baked into their last names in some places.

buboard 8y ago
I dont think that s the way it goes. Its just that if there was 1 smith in a village he was identified as such. The occupation had to be rare and important ( eg they wouldn t call you farmer. His children would keep the name regardless of their job (given that ppl had a lot of kids and the job had to be rare it s impossible that they d all do the same job)
- maigret 8y ago
  Many Germans are actually named “Bauer” (which means “Farmer“), or variations of it.
zamber 8y ago
I guess like Smith, Miller, Taylor, Walker, Baker, etc. are in the US.

cableshaft 8y ago

While Americans would say "I'm a _insert_hobby_or_job_or_responsibility_here_," they don't necessarily limit themselves to just one item. Like in my case, at this point in time I would say I'm a software engineer, a video and board game designer, a writer, and a hiker (well maybe just one or two depending on the context, but if I was writing a Twitter bio or something it'd include these things). If I was a mother or a father, I'd probably say that (most parents do), and if I cared enough about religion or politics, I'd probably include that also, but I don't really identify with anything too strongly there (or what to highlight or emphasize it), or if I cared about a specific identity label (gay, sapiosexual, polyamorous, genderfluid, whatever), that tends to get included also nowadays, especially with younger people.

freeflight 8y ago

> Less snarky, I find that attaching your identity to what you do is a profoundly American thing. "I'm a Rubyist", "I'm a runner", "I'm a Republican". The moment you are what you do, everything becomes so.. important. This is also a very German thing, especially due to the German apprenticeship system. Many Germans, that don't go into higher education, do an apprenticeship in their teens and often end up working in that line of work for the rest of their lives. As doing another apprenticeship when you are older, and living on your own, is often not feasible due to the low income. If somebody doesn't have either of the two, higher education or an apprenticeship they are usually considered a "nobody" as ones educational background is one of the main defining factors in German social hierarchy, in which "unlearned" occupations are generally looked down upon. It's a very shortsighted view on society and in parts responsible for the current shortage of nurses and other jobs with difficult working circumstances and low social standing.

theshrike79 8y ago
So THIS is why Germans prefix their name with "Doctor" or some such, which feels weird for us non-Germans.
- freeflight 8y ago
  Yup, many Germans just love their honorifics, even if they are only for show, it shows their "standing/accomplishments" and thus is an extremely important part of their social identity, that's why many insist on using their full honorifics when referring to them: "I'm not just a professor in XY, I'm also a doctor in XYZ and ZYX!". That's why bought honorific titles, usually by foreign universities/academies are a somewhat popular business in Germany. [0] It's the same deal with "siezen" and "duzen", some Germans take a lot of offense if you simply "du" them. To them, that's a sign of lacking respect towards them. Imho Germans are very similar to Japanese in a lot of these things. The form is often way more important than function, at least in a lot of social matters. [0] https://title-town.eu/ https://title-town.eu/

segmondy 8y ago

You're what you do. There's a reason we have names such as Fisher, Smith, Baker, Hunter, Piper, Bishop, Archer, Booker, Knight, etc. I'm a programmer. It's my core identity.

sanderjd 8y ago
As the parent points out, there's no reason this must be the case. I'd encourage you to open your mind to the possibility of separating your core identity from being a programmer. It's totally up to you of course! But believe me when I say there's way more to life than this.
- segmondy 8y ago
  Nah, I love my life. People that don't love what they do everyday for a living can't understand.