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I would avoid Dale Carnegie. It might have been valuable in the past, but right now to me it reads just like a bunch of out of time platituteds. Also, as a fre

I would avoid Dale Carnegie. It might have been valuable in the past, but right now to me it reads just like a bunch of out of time platituteds. Also, as a freelancer in Germany, I can tell you that those guidelines mostly apply to the American way of doing business--which definitely isn't the worldwide standard of dealing with business owners and managers.

uxcolumbo 8y ago
What books / resources for you recommend instead?
- flycaliguy 8y ago
  The book "Impro" by Keith Johnstone is really kind of brilliant in this regard. It's technically about improv theater but universally applicable. I found it's study of status quite good. So much can go wrong for people when they fail to maintain a harmonious exchange of status when interacting with others. This book describes how important status is in comedy and breaks down some old Marx brothers skit to analyses the humour in seeing somebody have their status diminished. It's been a while since I read it, but it's stuck with me and I remember developing a new sort of awareness of my interactions with others.
barry-cotter 8y ago
The reason they’re platitudes is because they’re true. Taken out of context they sound trite and they are but they’re well explained and just as true as when originally written. They may apply more easily to America than Germany but greeting people, remembering their name, taking an interest in who they are and how they’re doing work on everybody. You should not smile like an American in Germany. People might think you’re developmentally delayed. Equally you should not pretend to be eberyone’s best friend first time you meet them as if you’re from Los Angeles. But almost all of the book is relevant cross culturally.
JumpCrisscross 8y ago
> as a freelancer in Germany, I can tell you that those guidelines mostly apply to the American way of doing business American here. I’ve found that the friendly “American way” of doing business lets my team seal deals faster than their European competition. I initially got pushback from my UK team. “That isn’t how it’s done.” But human nature is human nature, and taking people’s personal aspirations into mind is never a bad strategy.
- pc86 8y ago
  It's always funny to me to see people say "well we just don't do business the way it's done in [the largest economy the world has ever known]."
  - rolleiflex 8y ago
    America is only 24% of world’s GDP — Most business in the world is not done ‘the American way’. Europe is 21%, their ways are just as valid. It just depends on the expectations from the other side. You won’t be able to run a business the American way in Germany, not would you be able to it vice versa. Nor you should be able to be. (There is nothing historic about being able to capture 20-25% of the world’s GDP either — England (1800s), Turkey (1600-1700) and China (European dark age through Middle Ages) has all achieved the same economic power US enjoys as of today.
    - mixmastamyk 8y ago
      > You won’t be able to run a business the American way in Germany, not would you be able to it vice versa. This thread is incredibly vague. I bet there is significant if not majority overlap between the two. Back to Dale Carnegie, his advice about not telling people "you are wrong" and getting to know them is some of the best and simplest advice I've ever received, and transcends time and space.
      - rolleiflex 8y ago
        My personal experience is that Germans take 'doing it by the book' to a whole another extreme. It's paperwork until the end of time. (I have no affiliation with either, but I've worked with both)
davidscolgan 8y ago
The biggest takeaway I got from How to Win Friends and Influence People is simply this: Think about things from the other person's perspective. Instead of talking about yourself, let them talk about themself. Instead of boasting about your own accomplishments, ask about theirs. The exact way you do these things depend on the culture for sure, and the book is written by an American. From what I understand Germany is less directly "friendly" than the US so the pleasantries may not carry over, but I have to imagine that considering the other person more than yourself does carry over.

uxcolumbo 8y ago

What books / resources for you recommend instead?

flycaliguy 8y ago
The book "Impro" by Keith Johnstone is really kind of brilliant in this regard. It's technically about improv theater but universally applicable. I found it's study of status quite good. So much can go wrong for people when they fail to maintain a harmonious exchange of status when interacting with others. This book describes how important status is in comedy and breaks down some old Marx brothers skit to analyses the humour in seeing somebody have their status diminished. It's been a while since I read it, but it's stuck with me and I remember developing a new sort of awareness of my interactions with others.

barry-cotter 8y ago

The reason they’re platitudes is because they’re true. Taken out of context they sound trite and they are but they’re well explained and just as true as when originally written. They may apply more easily to America than Germany but greeting people, remembering their name, taking an interest in who they are and how they’re doing work on everybody. You should not smile like an American in Germany. People might think you’re developmentally delayed. Equally you should not pretend to be eberyone’s best friend first time you meet them as if you’re from Los Angeles. But almost all of the book is relevant cross culturally.

JumpCrisscross 8y ago

> as a freelancer in Germany, I can tell you that those guidelines mostly apply to the American way of doing business American here. I’ve found that the friendly “American way” of doing business lets my team seal deals faster than their European competition. I initially got pushback from my UK team. “That isn’t how it’s done.” But human nature is human nature, and taking people’s personal aspirations into mind is never a bad strategy.

pc86 8y ago
It's always funny to me to see people say "well we just don't do business the way it's done in [the largest economy the world has ever known]."
- rolleiflex 8y ago
  America is only 24% of world’s GDP — Most business in the world is not done ‘the American way’. Europe is 21%, their ways are just as valid. It just depends on the expectations from the other side. You won’t be able to run a business the American way in Germany, not would you be able to it vice versa. Nor you should be able to be. (There is nothing historic about being able to capture 20-25% of the world’s GDP either — England (1800s), Turkey (1600-1700) and China (European dark age through Middle Ages) has all achieved the same economic power US enjoys as of today.
  - mixmastamyk 8y ago
    > You won’t be able to run a business the American way in Germany, not would you be able to it vice versa. This thread is incredibly vague. I bet there is significant if not majority overlap between the two. Back to Dale Carnegie, his advice about not telling people "you are wrong" and getting to know them is some of the best and simplest advice I've ever received, and transcends time and space.
    - rolleiflex 8y ago
      My personal experience is that Germans take 'doing it by the book' to a whole another extreme. It's paperwork until the end of time. (I have no affiliation with either, but I've worked with both)

davidscolgan 8y ago

The biggest takeaway I got from How to Win Friends and Influence People is simply this: Think about things from the other person's perspective. Instead of talking about yourself, let them talk about themself. Instead of boasting about your own accomplishments, ask about theirs. The exact way you do these things depend on the culture for sure, and the book is written by an American. From what I understand Germany is less directly "friendly" than the US so the pleasantries may not carry over, but I have to imagine that considering the other person more than yourself does carry over.