4 ms·

I disagree it's unsolved. Folks have been distributing and monetizing software for desktop-class machines since the 80's, just's fine, thanks. Been there, done

I disagree it's unsolved. Folks have been distributing and monetizing software for desktop-class machines since the 80's, just's fine, thanks. Been there, done that, have the T-shirt, and the T-shirt still fits fine.

mkramlich 16y ago
Negative -1? Really? Voting system is broken. I recommend for the Nth time that only trusted admins be allowed to take any piece of content down below 1 point. Right now, if any particular user simply disagrees with a given comment, they have the power to penalize and reduce another user's karma. Not because the user said something rude, trollish, juvenile or "evil", but merely because they might disagree. That to me is a broken mechanism. Please let's change this. Think HN will be the better for it.
- danilocampos 16y ago
  I missed you being in negative land, but it may have been a simple result of your remark being both silly and flip at the same time. Silly in that you don't address the substance of the point and flip in that you felt the need to invoke the T-Shirt cliche. Obviously getting software onto desktop computers has happened before. You're ignoring the power of Apple's approach. I mean, what, should we stick with distributing everything on 3.5" floppy disks because that, once upon a time, worked? Cardboard boxes? Advocating to maintain a 30 year status quo on anything is... questionable, but doubly so on something as crucially important and evolving as digital distribution. Similarly, I think you'd be downvoted for saying something like "Already do styling in HTML, works fine, t-shirt, blurgh" in a thread about the power of CSS3. Sure one works. But the new method works better. The amount of work you simply do not have to do with Apple as your App Store distribution partner is incredible. Instead of giving away a piece of software because it wouldn't bring in enough money to offset the trouble and cost of a licensing mechanism and merchant account, you can throw it onto the App Store for $5 and make a bit of cash in a few clicks. That's new.
  - mkramlich 16y ago
    from your original comment: > "The problem of distribution and monetization for desktop software is significant and largely unsolved." This is a factually untrue statement. Folks have been distributing and monetizing software quite successfully at least as far back as the 80's. I personally bought software, and sold software, in the 80's. Shocking, right? In the pre-App Store era. It's not difficult actually. Has Apple made it a little bit easier, given certain assumptions and constraints? Of course. But only if in exchange for that you put up with a whole extra set of problems and Big Brother rules you have to deal with, and hurdles to jump through, and restrictions to deal with, and uncertainty around what they will or will not allow you to do. I've been creating and shipping iPhone software for about 2 years now. I've distributed and monetized software both without and before the App Store, and in the App Store. I know whereof I speak. I find your comment rude and full of hyperbole. Statements like these are just as easily reversible and would still hold true: > "The amount of work you simply do not have to do with Apple as your App Store distribution partner is incredible." For example, could be reversed as: The amount of extra work and bullshit you have to put up with simply by distributing through the App Store is just incredible. Here's another one: > " (...) Instead of giving away a piece of software because it wouldn't bring in enough money to offset the trouble and cost of a licensing mechanism and merchant account, you can throw it onto the App Store for $5 and make a bit of cash in a few clicks." PayPal makes it pretty darn easy to let people buy your software on the web. And however "easy" you think it is to just "throw something" in the App Store, I guarantee you it's easier to just throw something up on a web server. I can write a shell script, then with a few keystrokes push it up to a live site and my customers can get it, instantly, with no complex submission process, no rules, no fear of either the content or functionality being proactively or retroactively rejected, at any time. I have an additive view of the world in that I think having more options is always a good thing. Does the App Store have good points? Sure, so it's great to have as an option. Are there bad things about it, and the iOS development model, and Apple's behavior/control in general? Of course. But to simply dismiss other ways of distributing software, and describe it as an unsolved problem, is clearly factually false and hyperbole. It looks at it through rose-tinted glasses, at a minimum, and arguably also with a great lack of awareness of both modern and past alternatives.
    - 16y ago
- loewenskind 16y ago
  Your comment was ignorant, arrogant and used one of the stupider (old) clichés around. It's a shame that it's up to +3. You claim that people have been releasing desktop software just fine. Utter nonsense. If you're Microsoft, Adobe, etc. then it's been ok but if you're a sole developer making indie software the normal distribution routes weren't available. That meant going on some shareware site, freshmeat, make your own site or something else and hope people can find you. The App store changes all this for the mainstream desktop [1] and it's going to be a big deal for indie developers. I'm surprised to see so many people on this site poo pooing it as this has to be one of the most startup-relevant things to happen to the desktop in decades. [1] Linux has had this for a long time and it was one of its few advantages as a desktop system.
  - mkramlich 16y ago
    Thanks for your feedback! Do you live in Colorado by any chance? Or stopping through soon? If so I'd love to meet and discuss further over a coffee or something. You made a great point.
    - loewenskind 16y ago
      I live in Europe, but I will be coming to the states later in the year. Are you being serious or are you challenging me to a fight?
      - mkramlich 16y ago
        I was serious. A friendly invitation.
MarkMc 16y ago
For Average Joe there are still significant pain points that a Mac App store can remedy. For example, I produce accounting software - here are the problems my would-be users face: 1. Where can users find a list of suitable accounting software products? Usually they Google 'accounting software', but this gives them plenty of crud such as: a) accountants websites; b) accounting software from other countries. c) advice websites. d) accounting software for big companies 2. When users get to a website for an accounting product, it can be difficult to to find out even basic information such as: a) The price; b) Screenshots; c) the Download button; d) the 'Buy Now' button. The App Store listings make this as plain as the nose on your face. 3. How can users compare accounting software products? At the moment you have to find a website with software reviews and hope the information is up-to-date, impartial and accurate. The ratings system in the App Store is better than almost any website. 4. The user doesn't know how easy or painful it is to install the software until they try. On windows, if they try downloading setup.exe they get TWO warnings saying 'This could harm your computer... are you sure?'. Maybe they remember last April when they clicked OK to a similar message and ended up with a virus. With the App Store the user knows that it's a one-click install and will not get any scary messages about harming their computer. 5. Can the user trust the website to process their credit card details correctly. Maybe they remember the last time they tried on another website and the site froze after they clicked 'submit' so they didn't know if it had worked. Or they read about a company that had all their credit card details stolen. The Mac Store is seen as far more trustworthy by Average Joe because it is run by Apple. 6. The software update process for App Store is a breeze - better than most ad-hoc software update solutions. And the user knows it before they install the accounting software because they have already used it for updating other software. My guess is that the Mac App Store will be huge, and being ranked well will be like striking gold. Let the gold rush begin!

mkramlich 16y ago

Negative -1? Really? Voting system is broken. I recommend for the Nth time that only trusted admins be allowed to take any piece of content down below 1 point. Right now, if any particular user simply disagrees with a given comment, they have the power to penalize and reduce another user's karma. Not because the user said something rude, trollish, juvenile or "evil", but merely because they might disagree. That to me is a broken mechanism. Please let's change this. Think HN will be the better for it.

danilocampos 16y ago
I missed you being in negative land, but it may have been a simple result of your remark being both silly and flip at the same time. Silly in that you don't address the substance of the point and flip in that you felt the need to invoke the T-Shirt cliche. Obviously getting software onto desktop computers has happened before. You're ignoring the power of Apple's approach. I mean, what, should we stick with distributing everything on 3.5" floppy disks because that, once upon a time, worked? Cardboard boxes? Advocating to maintain a 30 year status quo on anything is... questionable, but doubly so on something as crucially important and evolving as digital distribution. Similarly, I think you'd be downvoted for saying something like "Already do styling in HTML, works fine, t-shirt, blurgh" in a thread about the power of CSS3. Sure one works. But the new method works better. The amount of work you simply do not have to do with Apple as your App Store distribution partner is incredible. Instead of giving away a piece of software because it wouldn't bring in enough money to offset the trouble and cost of a licensing mechanism and merchant account, you can throw it onto the App Store for $5 and make a bit of cash in a few clicks. That's new.
- mkramlich 16y ago
  from your original comment: > "The problem of distribution and monetization for desktop software is significant and largely unsolved." This is a factually untrue statement. Folks have been distributing and monetizing software quite successfully at least as far back as the 80's. I personally bought software, and sold software, in the 80's. Shocking, right? In the pre-App Store era. It's not difficult actually. Has Apple made it a little bit easier, given certain assumptions and constraints? Of course. But only if in exchange for that you put up with a whole extra set of problems and Big Brother rules you have to deal with, and hurdles to jump through, and restrictions to deal with, and uncertainty around what they will or will not allow you to do. I've been creating and shipping iPhone software for about 2 years now. I've distributed and monetized software both without and before the App Store, and in the App Store. I know whereof I speak. I find your comment rude and full of hyperbole. Statements like these are just as easily reversible and would still hold true: > "The amount of work you simply do not have to do with Apple as your App Store distribution partner is incredible." For example, could be reversed as: The amount of extra work and bullshit you have to put up with simply by distributing through the App Store is just incredible. Here's another one: > " (...) Instead of giving away a piece of software because it wouldn't bring in enough money to offset the trouble and cost of a licensing mechanism and merchant account, you can throw it onto the App Store for $5 and make a bit of cash in a few clicks." PayPal makes it pretty darn easy to let people buy your software on the web. And however "easy" you think it is to just "throw something" in the App Store, I guarantee you it's easier to just throw something up on a web server. I can write a shell script, then with a few keystrokes push it up to a live site and my customers can get it, instantly, with no complex submission process, no rules, no fear of either the content or functionality being proactively or retroactively rejected, at any time. I have an additive view of the world in that I think having more options is always a good thing. Does the App Store have good points? Sure, so it's great to have as an option. Are there bad things about it, and the iOS development model, and Apple's behavior/control in general? Of course. But to simply dismiss other ways of distributing software, and describe it as an unsolved problem, is clearly factually false and hyperbole. It looks at it through rose-tinted glasses, at a minimum, and arguably also with a great lack of awareness of both modern and past alternatives.
  - 16y ago
loewenskind 16y ago
Your comment was ignorant, arrogant and used one of the stupider (old) clichés around. It's a shame that it's up to +3. You claim that people have been releasing desktop software just fine. Utter nonsense. If you're Microsoft, Adobe, etc. then it's been ok but if you're a sole developer making indie software the normal distribution routes weren't available. That meant going on some shareware site, freshmeat, make your own site or something else and hope people can find you. The App store changes all this for the mainstream desktop [1] and it's going to be a big deal for indie developers. I'm surprised to see so many people on this site poo pooing it as this has to be one of the most startup-relevant things to happen to the desktop in decades. [1] Linux has had this for a long time and it was one of its few advantages as a desktop system.
- mkramlich 16y ago
  Thanks for your feedback! Do you live in Colorado by any chance? Or stopping through soon? If so I'd love to meet and discuss further over a coffee or something. You made a great point.
  - loewenskind 16y ago
    I live in Europe, but I will be coming to the states later in the year. Are you being serious or are you challenging me to a fight?
    - mkramlich 16y ago
      I was serious. A friendly invitation.

MarkMc 16y ago

For Average Joe there are still significant pain points that a Mac App store can remedy. For example, I produce accounting software - here are the problems my would-be users face: 1. Where can users find a list of suitable accounting software products? Usually they Google 'accounting software', but this gives them plenty of crud such as: a) accountants websites; b) accounting software from other countries. c) advice websites. d) accounting software for big companies 2. When users get to a website for an accounting product, it can be difficult to to find out even basic information such as: a) The price; b) Screenshots; c) the Download button; d) the 'Buy Now' button. The App Store listings make this as plain as the nose on your face. 3. How can users compare accounting software products? At the moment you have to find a website with software reviews and hope the information is up-to-date, impartial and accurate. The ratings system in the App Store is better than almost any website. 4. The user doesn't know how easy or painful it is to install the software until they try. On windows, if they try downloading setup.exe they get TWO warnings saying 'This could harm your computer... are you sure?'. Maybe they remember last April when they clicked OK to a similar message and ended up with a virus. With the App Store the user knows that it's a one-click install and will not get any scary messages about harming their computer. 5. Can the user trust the website to process their credit card details correctly. Maybe they remember the last time they tried on another website and the site froze after they clicked 'submit' so they didn't know if it had worked. Or they read about a company that had all their credit card details stolen. The Mac Store is seen as far more trustworthy by Average Joe because it is run by Apple. 6. The software update process for App Store is a breeze - better than most ad-hoc software update solutions. And the user knows it before they install the accounting software because they have already used it for updating other software. My guess is that the Mac App Store will be huge, and being ranked well will be like striking gold. Let the gold rush begin!